Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Bristol Fan » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:26 pm

Was pretty even stevens throughout, Hurst missed a chance that probably even Andy Carroll would have scored so we should have been 1-0 up, but to be fair they then hit the post from a free kick, so going in level at half time was fair enough. They worked out (and it doesn't take a genius to do so) that if they stopped Cuvelier and Ledesma then they'd probably stop us, and they were right. Moment of stupidity from Butler to concede a needless free kick in that position against a team with a free kick specialist, I know he was fouled (and nothing given) moments before but he lost his head and it's ended up costing us a point.

After that, we abandoned trying to play football by sticking Butler up front and hoofing long balls up, then bringing Bowerman on and so having four up front to hoof long balls to, so by that stage it didn't matter about Tranmere, we had already effectively nullified our two best players all by ourselves through silly tactics.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Registered Saddler » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:29 pm

saddlerken wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:Even with Ledesma in our side we struggle to score goals

16 in 8 games before the Charlton match.


Sorry, what is your point?

That we've had two disappointing results and suddenly the board moaners jump on the manager's back yet again. Doesn't matter that we were scoring for fun for 8 games, if we're not winning every week then of course we're useless/going down/sack the manager/Bonser out/get rid of all the players. I wasn't there, I don't know how we played, but even if we were poor going forward that has been the exception rather than the rule since Ledesma, Cuvelier and Mantom came in. But I wouldn't expect a sense of perspective when there's such a good opportunity to slag off Smith.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby ToeJoe Jnr » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:38 pm

Bristol Fan wrote:Was pretty even stevens throughout, Hurst missed a chance that probably even Andy Carroll would have scored so we should have been 1-0 up, but to be fair they then hit the post from a free kick, so going in level at half time was fair enough. They worked out (and it doesn't take a genius to do so) that if they stopped Cuvelier and Ledesma then they'd probably stop us, and they were right. Moment of stupidity from Butler to concede a needless free kick in that position against a team with a free kick specialist, I know he was fouled (and nothing given) moments before but he lost his head and it's ended up costing us a point.

After that, we abandoned trying to play football by sticking Butler up front and hoofing long balls up, then bringing Bowerman on and so having four up front to hoof long balls to, so by that stage it didn't matter about Tranmere, we had already effectively nullified our two best players all by ourselves through silly tactics.


Spot on and this is exactly where Dean Smith does himself no favours at all! On WM after he mentioned the words panic and scrappy when decscribing the push for a goal in the last 10 minutes. Yet it was only like this as we opted to play hoof ball to Butler who I can only imagine is still trying to find his way out of Goodison's pocket as I type. We had brought Patterson on only moments before for what purpose if we are going to resort to this tactic??

Bristol is right, this nullified both Ledesma and Cuvelier as they watched the ball consistently find Goodison's head. Prior to this we played some okay stuff at times and had we continued I think we would have stood a better chance of finding an equaliser.

One other point isthe woeful display of Nicholls and Hurst. As Bristol states, Tranmere worked out that they need to stop the threat from Cuvelier and Ledesma, so did our wingers step up the plate??? Answers on a postcard.......

Big game next Saturday.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Neuromantic » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Can't be bothered to type a full report as that display doesn't deserve one.

Atrocious today but mainly down the manager - awful, awful tactics and substitutions.

Never gone back and forth on a Walsall manager like this but I am sorry, today was not good enough if that continues next season then we are ready for another rubbish season.

Why negate our best two attacking players by playing hoofball to a centre half for the last twenty minutes? Absolutely mind numbing and rubbish.

Pathetic. Smith has to go at the end of the season if he does not learn from his glaring mistakes.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Ancient Moaner » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:46 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
saddlerken wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:Even with Ledesma in our side we struggle to score goals

16 in 8 games before the Charlton match.


Sorry, what is your point?

That we've had two disappointing results and suddenly the board moaners jump on the manager's back yet again. Doesn't matter that we were scoring for fun for 8 games, if we're not winning every week then of course we're useless/going down/sack the manager/Bonser out/get rid of all the players. I wasn't there, I don't know how we played, but even if we were poor going forward that has been the exception rather than the rule since Ledesma, Cuvelier and Mantom came in. But I wouldn't expect a sense of perspective when there's such a good opportunity to slag off Smith.


Not slagging Smith off at all, indeed I am one of a shrinking minority who thinks he's OK enough for the peanuts we pay down at the Bezza, h'e the best were gonna get. It's the training thats at fault. I was always taught that the aim of football was to get that leathery thing into the netty thing between the two sticks! Some extra training around attempts at goal should be an automatic option, as it is obvious that this lack of ability could be our downfall. Also is it just me, or does our pre match 'warm up' go just a little 'over the top'? They look utterly knackered before they have kicked a ball in anger.
Exeter & MKDongs are write off's, the match at home to Hudderfield (now lost three on the trot have they not) is THE vital match, a win is the most vital 'must win' game this season.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby tinned » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:50 pm

Ref was a scouse pregnant fish.

We were rubbish.

Hurst can go
Nicholls can go
I hope I never see Beevers in a Walsall shirt again

Hobgoblin at £1.90 a pint in the Saddlers Club shouldn't be allowed.

Goodnight x
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Neuromantic » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:53 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
saddlerken wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:Even with Ledesma in our side we struggle to score goals

16 in 8 games before the Charlton match.


Sorry, what is your point?

That we've had two disappointing results and suddenly the board moaners jump on the manager's back yet again. Doesn't matter that we were scoring for fun for 8 games, if we're not winning every week then of course we're useless/going down/sack the manager/Bonser out/get rid of all the players. I wasn't there, I don't know how we played, but even if we were poor going forward that has been the exception rather than the rule since Ledesma, Cuvelier and Mantom came in. But I wouldn't expect a sense of perspective when there's such a good opportunity to slag off Smith.


Question. In a year - do you think we have progressed? Was this season a success?
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby philthesaddler » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:09 pm

I thought Hurst had a half decent game, apart from his miss, he got in to good positions, made good runs and generally caused them problems.

Nicholls was awful, he simply didnt look interested today, he had 4 chances to put in a cross, and only one got anywhere near the 6 yard box, and then this is where Smith baffles me... with Hurst playing reasonably well, Ledesma, Cuvelier and Mantom all playing well... who does he take off? Hurst.

One final point, they were a big physical side, mostly 6ft 2+, we were outmuscled. Yes Tranmere got "stuck in", and the Ref could have been stricter at times but you can't deny the fact we're a very small side (physically) and we always struggle against the bigger sides.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Chapin » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:10 pm

Definitely a point lost today. Question is do you blame Butler's rush of blood or Hurst's miss?.

Back four all had an ok game. Grof won't have an easier game. Nicholls and Hurst threatened to deliver but never did. Flo seems to be losing a little zip. I've been a critic of Mantom but today thought he did better as he did last week against Chesterfield. Forward runs were good and well timed and had a couple of decent shots. Macken linked up play and strangely did better shielding the high ball against Goodison than Butler did trying to win it. Missed a go(a)lden chance late on but one heck of a block by their defender. Ledesma faded a bit in second half but still a bright spark.

Disappointed with the subs when they came on. Both looked as though it was the end of a long season for them and offered nothing. Already mentioned by Bristol our tactics of hoof the ball to Butler played into Tranmere's hands or more correctly onto Goodison's head.

On the positive side we created a fair number of chances, just didn't take them.

Beever's unfortunate red card means a think for Mr Smith before next Saturday. Personally I'd go 3-4-1-2 with Ollie in for Beevers, Hurst (most defensive minded of our alleged wide players) wide right Sadler left, Chambers anchor in centre mid with Mantom, Flo just behind Emmy and Macken. Might just make the best use of our resources.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby saddlerken » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:11 pm

3 players too good for this level turn up, we do better, shock.

Even though said 3 players still here we revert to type. Those lads want to go back before they pick up some bad habits.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Aldridge_saddler » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:29 pm

When we got desperate that was tactically hurrendous!! Take off your two wide players and flood the centre!? Madness!!! Flo, Macken and Ledesma thrive off of SPACE so what does the manager do? FILLS IT WITH WALSALL PLAYERS!!!!

Now I am not saying the wide men had a good game, but they were atleast keeping 2 defenders away from the strikers. I think the criticism of Beevers is a tad harsh towards the end he was abondoned.

God I miss Pedro Matias :(
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby WFC_Rob » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:40 pm

Tactics aside, what disappointed me most this afternoon was the lack of heart, desire and tempo. They did a job on Ledesma and Cuvelier, but to be quite honest, we didn't even attempt to give them anything out of the ordinary to think about.

We should have come flying out of the blocks this afternoon, desperate to guide ourselves to safety. Instead, we looked lethargic and as lacklustre as we've looked all season. That worries me, as we've got three games left to play against sides who have something to play for - all three will brush us aside with ease if we play like that again.

Should Smith carry the can for the performance? Yes, I think he should. Smith's tactics and substitutions have always been questionable, but when he can't motivate his side for the biggest game of our season so far, we lose what is his main strength as a manager.

That late Oldham goal could be what ultimately saves us, but we don't deserve to stay up if performances like that are deemed acceptable.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby hullsaddler » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:02 pm

Oh dear.Have just started thinking about a day trip from Hull to Milton Keynes.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Duke » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:15 pm

Disappointing all round by all accounts , not to much damage done but the pressure is on again next Saturday .

Smith said on the radio he thought we fully deserved something from the game , that's not what I'm reading on here .
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Ancient Moaner » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:23 pm

hullsaddler wrote:Oh dear.Have just started thinking about a day trip from Hull to Milton Keynes.


It's a long way down there from our part of the country my friend, cus the defeat will be irrelavent, its the other matches that will ultimately seal our fate or otherwise. With the cost of fuel these days, it's cheaper, but more heart poundingly worrying being a 'keyboard warrior' on a Saturday afternoon, watching the scores develop around us! :?
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby kshammer » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:24 pm

For me today, the defence was ok, Flo/Cuvelier/Mantom were ok but the complete ineptitude of Hurst and Nicholls to offer any quality from out wide along with Macken's legs finally looking like they've gone, cost us a possible win. Nicholls just runs with no final product, Hurst could barely control it/cross it (wont even mention his miss) and I would much prefer the mobility and young legs someone like Bowerman offers as I really don't think the passing game we try to play suits Macken now his mobility has gone. I, and most around me, thought these points were blatantly obvious very early on, but it took far too long to change things and while I am definately not a Smith basher, I do think he was at fault today and showed naivety.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby bleed_red_n_white » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:31 pm

Trampmere were one of the worst sides I've seen all season, they offered absolutly nothing going forward yet they still managed to turn us over, whos to blame for this...


Dean Smith - tactiks? where were they...

Kevin Hurst - Missed an open goal, offers absolutly nothing going forward, offers Sadler no help what so ever tracking back, if it was down to me this clown wouldnt wear the shirt agen.

Alex Nicholls - if he gets a contract extention this year this club is a complete joke, never in my life have I seen a more brain dead footballer.

Jon Macken - I love big john but Im sorry that open goal he missed was totally unacceptable, he is too slow for our game, when we pass it on the decks like we originally set out today he simply does not have the pace to keep up and when he is fed by Ladesma he generally loses it because of he control and speed.

Yet again we fail to beat a poor side whos only tactik was too kick us off the park and take a dive anytime one of our guys came near them, this was not helped by a complete prat of a ref.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby priestley_saddler » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:04 pm

A match that on the balance of play we probably deserved a point from, without ever really looking like getting one.

I know at the moment its fashionable to knock Smith's tactics and substitutions regardless of what they are or their impact on the game. Today the substitutions were probably spot on. Hurst was rubbish (were you watching a different game Phil?) and was replaced with Paterson. Nicholls was slightly less rubbish so was replaced slightly later with Bowerman. Throwing Butler up front and playing 3-3-4 for the last quarter of an hour was strange, and I wonder how much of that was down to Butler wanting to make up for his rush of blood for their goal. It smacked of desperation, as though they were thinking "This is one of our easier remaining games and therefore we must get something". Whatever the reasoning, it didn't work.

Hurst's miss I would actually go as far as say Torres would have scored it. He's had back to back stinkers now at a time when players are usually playing for their futures, and his current form could see him released as he offered nothing today.

No complaints with the Beevers red card, although the fact the ref played an advantage before going back to send him off illustrated just how much of a piece this particular official was. Still, at least he was happy to count out ten yards for free kicks, something last weeks numpty struggled with.

Bad day at the office today but not the disaster some of the usual suspects would like it to be. One more win and we're safe. I actually don't think Wycombe will get four points from the last three games anyway, which in essence makes us safe already, but win at Exeter next week and we'll definitely be safe.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby kshammer » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:41 pm

bleed_red_n_white wrote:Trampmere were one of the worst sides I've seen all season, they offered absolutly nothing going forward yet they still managed to turn us over, whos to blame for this...


Dean Smith - tactiks? where were they...

Kevin Hurst - Missed an open goal, offers absolutly nothing going forward, offers Sadler no help what so ever tracking back, if it was down to me this clown wouldnt wear the shirt agen.

Alex Nicholls - if he gets a contract extention this year this club is a complete joke, never in my life have I seen a more brain dead footballer.

Jon Macken - I love big john but Im sorry that open goal he missed was totally unacceptable, he is too slow for our game, when we pass it on the decks like we originally set out today he simply does not have the pace to keep up and when he is fed by Ladesma he generally loses it because of he control and speed.

Yet again we fail to beat a poor side whos only tactik was too kick us off the park and take a dive anytime one of our guys came near them, this was not helped by a complete prat of a ref.


Spot on.

Meant to mention his lack of help to Sadler but forgot. Sadler was left exposed with two men running at him time and time again.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby WFC_Rob » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:33 pm

priestley_saddler wrote:I know at the moment its fashionable to knock Smith's tactics and substitutions regardless of what they are or their impact on the game. Today the substitutions were probably spot on. Hurst was rubbish (were you watching a different game Phil?) and was replaced with Paterson. Nicholls was slightly less rubbish so was replaced slightly later with Bowerman. Throwing Butler up front and playing 3-3-4 for the last quarter of an hour was strange, and I wonder how much of that was down to Butler wanting to make up for his rush of blood for their goal. It smacked of desperation, as though they were thinking "This is one of our easier remaining games and therefore we must get something". Whatever the reasoning, it didn't work.

It didn't work because his opposite number did his homework and we had no plan B.

Replacing Hurst with Paterson was spot on, but the change was made 10 minutes too late - by the time he brought Paterson on, we'd resorted to playing desperate long balls up to Butler, who had no joy against the predictably solid Goodison.

I don't see the benefit of slating Smith for no reason, but nor do I see why we should gloss over what was a very poor performance. Smith's team was found out today and he had nothing up his sleeve to respond with.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby leics_saddler » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:39 pm

We should be virtually safe by now but aren't.
Whilst today's effort is disappointing, it was always likely to be happen one time before the end of the season.

The problem has been the first two thirds of the season, not the form we've been in lately.
We have enough to stay up and should do it. Even I'm confident, as a pessimist and stayaway.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby SWS1 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:16 pm

Wish I had your confidence. But you're right - we should be well safe by now. Are we intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? Seems like it.
Personally, I am bricking it and it shouldn't be like this. My gruntle has been entirely removed by the last two results.
Get your bl**dy act together, Smith. My nerves are shot
Gruntle-less South Wales Supporter.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Cully » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:22 pm

saddlerken wrote:3 players too good for this level turn up, we do better, shock.

Even though said 3 players still here we revert to type. Those lads want to go back before they pick up some bad habits.



As a fellow follower of fashion it's too late Ken, Cuvelier was fashionably poor today taking up what I assume to be Dean Smiths usual advice to the now absent Chambers of losing the ball while falling over or desperately passing it back at high speed to one of our defensive wizards to make the 60yd killer pass.
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Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby bangsection » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:54 pm

Not much to add. If Hurst (bobbins today) had popped that early one-on-one in the net we might have settled and gone on to win comfortably. But we were below par today, no question. Still don't think Dean Smith has gorra goo, mind.

Tell you what, though, I completely missed the Beevers dismissal! Absolutely no idea he had been sent off until I read it on here. Sober as a judge, too. Very strange. Proper X-Files moment.

Saw David Roe at the end - shouting at the Ref with a cross face. "Why is that man so angry, Daddy?" enquired my boy. "Because he watches Walsall more than we do" I replied.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Codsall Saddler » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:44 am

Unfortunate to play Tranmere after their defeat on Monday when Ronnie Moore gave them a tongue lashing about 'poor defending', etc and they adopted a severe 'they shall not pass' attitude. They were up for it and did a job on Ledesma. Another ref would have sent their neanderthal no 8 (Welch?) off. But then another ref would have spotted Butler getting elbowed before the goal.

Thought we were worth at least a point today and definitely didn't deserve to lose. They had 2 worthwhile shots on goal and scored with one of them. They also hit the post with a fluke. We missed a number of chances and had numerous efforts. Couldn't see Macken's effort clearly, but looked like he couldn't miss. Flo was less effective today, but when 2 out of the midfield 4 didn't turn up, it makes it difficult. Thought Mantom was very good, tidied stuff up and made some good forward runs. Back 4 solid, including Beevers, although his distribution is woeful. Helluva game for Westlake to come into next week. Hurst and Nicholls contributed sod all apart from one of the misses of the season.

Not sure where the 4 points we may need are going to come from. Hope Charlton aren't in celebration mode for their game vs Wycombe.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby mel58 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:56 am

Disappointed, but not surprised, by yesterdays result - given that we are never able to boss games. We will always do better against teams who let us play than when we have to deal with those whose primary focus is stopping us playing then picking up any scraps that they can to get for themselves. Throw in a ref whose perspective seemed quirky, to say the least (what was all that calling over Butler to talk with Ledesma, following his legitimate challenge on their defender who was the last man. I know Butler is Captain and is involved in refereeing but I didn't know that he is the club's on-field Spanish translator too!), add in some under-par performances - names already mentioned - and you have what we had yesterday.

I'm happier with our position than those of the teams below us although I'm frustrated that some of the draws we've had in the last few months could easily have been wins, which would have placed us comfortably out of range of the relegation zone, but I'm still grateful we are not as shambolic an outfit as the one which had the double done against it by Oldham and Notts County and lost in pitiful fashion against Dagenham at home in the FA Cup.

My biggest worry is that, irrespective of what division we end up playing in next season, I'll have to wait until well after Christmas again before my club focuses on getting it's act together on the field.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Bernie » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:27 pm

Looking at the highlights Beevers was very unlucky to be given a second yellow card for a supposed body-check. He simply held his ground and the Tranmere player ran into his leg. Was he supposed to get out of the way?
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Registered Saddler » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:46 pm

Saarland Saddler wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:That we've had two disappointing results and suddenly the board moaners jump on the manager's back yet again. Doesn't matter that we were scoring for fun for 8 games, if we're not winning every week then of course we're useless/going down/sack the manager/Bonser out/get rid of all the players. I wasn't there, I don't know how we played, but even if we were poor going forward that has been the exception rather than the rule since Ledesma, Cuvelier and Mantom came in. But I wouldn't expect a sense of perspective when there's such a good opportunity to slag off Smith.


Question. In a year - do you think we have progressed? Was this season a success?

First question - yes. Second question - no. Last season we were dead and buried and yet somehow managed to haul ourselves out of the mire. This year we've hovered around the bottom third for most of the season. It's progress, of a sort. I'd give Smith 6/10 - we've underperformed by about 3 wins IMO. Come the final reckoning, if we stay up then that's disappointing but not disastrous. If we do the same next season then he'll go, I'm sure. However I would predict that even if we were 10th-11th rather than 18th-19th then the same fans would still support him, and the same fans will be on his back.
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Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby Fray Bentos is God! » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:05 pm

Bernie wrote:Looking at the highlights Beevers was very unlucky to be given a second yellow card for a supposed body-check. He simply held his ground and the Tranmere player ran into his leg. Was he supposed to get out of the way?


The referee should know that anyone who bumps into somebody as tight and muscular as Beevers will come off second best.

Referee was very poor yesterday.
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 14/4/12.

Postby tinned » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:17 pm

If Beevers hadn't uneccesarily handballed in the first half then he wouldn't have been sent off.

The amount of times others have to cover him because he's gone missing is unbelievable.

He is a 100%er but that ain't enough.

Goodbye.
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