Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Reports and reaction from the 2012-2013 season and preseason games

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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby PT » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:14 am

King Crimson wrote:I think Featherstone is decent enough, and haven't seen enough of Baxendale to really comment. Chambers, Featherstone and Cuvelier in front is fine in my view, and Hemmings and Paterson just need to commit as much when they don't have the ball as when they do.

If Grigg or Bowerman can turn into a genuine handful for sustained spells in the game, I think we're fine.


I think that's right

I've been impressd with Featherstone.

The reason we didn't see out yesterday was that we lost our legs on the wings and up front. So as a counter-attacking force we were spent, they could therefore attack with impunity and with a shape that meant that we needed some very square pegs to perform in some very round holes. Our threadbare squad meant that the required changes were gambles however they came. If we had Brandy or Chambers (A) or even Taundry at our disposal from the bench we might just have seen it through.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby PT » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:31 am

chopper wfc wrote:As for grof I've backed him all the way but said noone is undroppable


I too have backed him but out of the nine goals we've conceded this season there has been a question mark over Grof for over half of them. At 6ft 3" plus arms and hands he should dominate but he doesn't. The bit of his head that needs sorting is that he needs to come to terms with the fact that being a goalkeeper in the lower leagues will mean he will get hurt. Usually it will just be getting winded but he needs to accept that it could be worse and face into that as an occupational hazard. If he continues to shirk and flap the opposition will play to his weakness.

The positive is that 23 is still very young for a keeper. Loads of time to learn and get physically and mentally stronger.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Fray Bentos is God! » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:40 am

On Grof I actually think the first goal was a result of him trying too hard to impress. Two Brentford lads went for that. Let them muck it up and have the defence mop up the second ball.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby King Crimson » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:16 am

ChopperWFC wrote:We lost a midfielder to injury so forced a change in formation which granted yielded two goals but IMHO makes less fluid in possession and more likely to hoof it to the front men. Unless we get a stronger front man that tactic just doesn't work. Secondly the budget really shows when you turn to the bench. Are some of them out of school yet ? ?
We really aren't far from a steady mid table side so remaining positive.!


Agree with that. I'm not so sure about the budget impact on the team. I don't know what the budget is, and I'm not convinced it's all been spent wisely.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Whitters » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:41 am

PT wrote:Interesting. Be nice to know where they found him just in case there's another one knocking about. It is also a good reminder that comparing Grigg to Donaldson or Smith to Rosler is really unfair. The comparison that really matters is the attitude (not necassaily the depth of the pockets) of the man at the top. I wonder where Jeff was when Brentford equalised today. I wonder if he knows yet. I wonder if he gives a flying one.

Talking about Rosler, his comments on the BBC site made me laugh - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19378090
He talks of the players great mental health.
I presume he meant mental strength.

Note - another week without a comment by Smith on the BBC....
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby SWS1 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:29 am

Becoming more philosophical about yesterday after the huge disappointment of sitting down to watch the results come in on Sky with us 2 - 0 up with 5 to go and watching, incredulous, as the lead evaporated in 4 minutes. Let's face it, with our injuries and a threadbare squad, that's a good point.
EXCELSIOR!
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby mossa » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:35 am

Still can't believe we didn't win yesterday. The last 20-25 mins of the first half is as good as I have seen us play for a long time. We looked reasonably comfortable in the second half, I thought we had just as many chances to kill the game off as Brentford had to get back into it. Smith subs were not needed I thought, we had a good shape all game and then he threw the young lad on Williams who didnt seem to know where he was playing and same for Downing. As soon as these come on we seemed all out of shape. As soon as Brentford scored the first it seemed obvious with how panicky we became they would score again, we have seen it all too often with Walsall. They very nearly won it as well with that deflected effort.

I would definately drop Grof now, his confidence has gone. I think he will come good again but needs taking out of the firing line for now. Besides its not like we have a young unproven keeper on the bench, Super Jim won't let us down. On the positives yeterday Flo played really well and Featherstone was my MOTM. I thought everything he did was done with a touch of class (apart from the one time when he lost possesion). Wasn't convinced with him after the Doncaster match but starting to warm to him now. Also Bowerman was excellent, assist and a goal and worked hard all game besides looking tired for the 2nd half. He is definately the best striker we have at the club at the moment(not much competition I know). As for Grigg, he works very hard but for me his not anywhere near league 1 atandard, as most fans have said all season we desperately need another striker preferably someone with a bit of presence about them.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby latviancheese » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:38 am

Probably would have taken a point before the game anyway, so not a bad result considering the cash they float around.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Mal » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:51 am

At last some comments that are actually reflective of the game, impressed with Featherstone, Flo and Taylor who all worked there socks off. All this talk of quality and defenders, who by the way were superb, get some perspective, Felani for Everton last night lost McAuley for the Baggies second and he gets paid thousands! Let's not forget they are human!

Smith had no choice with the subs both George, Ash and Patterson were knackered!

More than happy with 4 from 6, other way round and thumbs up but who cares

Cliche time, for the neutral a fair result
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby King Crimson » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:58 am

Mal wrote:Smith had no choice with the subs both George, Ash and Patterson were knackered!

He didn't have to persist with 4-4-2 at 2-0 up as they began throwing more attacking players on.

By all means take those three off, but go 4-5-1 with Baxendale replacing Bowerman. Stick kids on the wing if you like. Hemmings and Paterson weren't defending anyway.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Mal » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:37 pm

Easy after the event, he bought on Downing and changed the formation. Groff was aruably fouled for the first but equally if it was not for a worldly from there keeper we may have been 3 up. Let's focus on stuffing the franchise now UTS
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby traymondo » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:29 pm

This time last year we would not have got a point from that game.
Progress.
UTS.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby saddlerken » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:45 pm

traymondo wrote:This time last year we would not have got a point from that game.
Progress.
UTS.


Sarcastic I presume?
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby PT » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:08 pm

saddlerken wrote:
traymondo wrote:This time last year we would not have got a point from that game.
Progress.
UTS.


Sarcastic I presume?


Sarcastic or not I agree. We lost 1-0 at home to a Brentford team that was inferior to the side and squad they can field this year. Not only did we lose, but we lost in a really dull way.

Yesterday was action packed, not only four goals, but some great football a lot of which we played, some great efforts (Flo's for us was world class) some near misses (Grigg's header) and a load to be positive about. A young Walsall side matching an experienced and expensively assembled outfit by getting the ball down and playing.

Massive progress on a smaller budget that will get smaller based on yesterday's attendance.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Darth Vader » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:33 pm

saddlerken wrote:
traymondo wrote:This time last year we would not have got a point from that game.
Progress.
UTS.


Sarcastic I presume?


You make some good point on here but flaming hell mate calm the negativity down, on another day we'd have got all 3 points with ease yesterday no problems, probably if Wacka was in goal I hate to say - saw the first Brentford goal and it seemed Grof dived in for the ball far too early resulting in a crap punch landing straight to a Brentford player on the edge of the box.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby saddlerken » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:37 pm

PT, I will take you post with a pinch of salt. I do admire your optimism and positivity, it's great.

BUT, we should have lost, they had more and better chances.

We were the home side, we were 2 zip up and let it slip, this is a terrible sign.

That defence (the one thing that Smith is good at managing) is now a mossive problem.

Merson's game were action packed, doesn't make it good to watch.

A young team doesn't necessarily mean a worse team and I would bet that some of those young lads out there will go on to better things in the future. Admittedly, I enjoyed watching Flo, Paterson and Bowerman combine with some lovely 1 touch football.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby saddlerken » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:39 pm

Darth Vader wrote:probably if Wacka was in goal I hate to say .


Have you seen him play recently? I haven't, but I would guess judging by his enormous belly that his agility could be called into question.

Grof shouldn't even be mentioned if you ask me, the 4 blokes in front should be stopping the ball getting anywhere near him.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Darth Vader » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:41 pm

saddlerken wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:probably if Wacka was in goal I hate to say .


Have you seen him play recently? I haven't, but I would guess judging by his enormous belly that his agility could be called into question.

Grof shouldn't even be mentioned if you ask me, the 4 blokes in front should be stopping the ball getting anywhere near him.


He's got fantastic positioning Walker, knowing such an experienced 'keeper he'd have probably not jumped in like Grof.

The defence might have sorted it out! Like I said, Grof dived right in and flapped a weak punch resulting into a simple dink into the net. He's still a good GK though, Grof, very pleased to have him.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby saddlerken » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:48 pm

I doubt Walker could jump, he'd probably sink if he tried
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Louise » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:17 pm

Have waited 24 hours to post just to regroup after what felt like a defeat.
Firstly Grof is the last line of defence , not the first. I love Jimmy as much as the next but he is the past and dropping Grof is not the answer.
I do wonder about Deano and what he is watching - the subs were just not what was required and sadly I think by the last 5 mins we were lucky to get a draw. Other Managers seem to out think him tactically and that really does worry me.
I actually think we miss Macken and certainly need that type of player who can hold the ball up front.
Its gonna be a long winter and for yet another season I see nothing but a relegation battle.
Will be there against the Franchise on Saturday but more in hope than belief we can win.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Willenhall Saddler » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:54 pm

Darth Vader wrote:
saddlerken wrote:
traymondo wrote:This time last year we would not have got a point from that game.
Progress.
UTS.


Sarcastic I presume?


You make some good point on here but flaming hell mate calm the negativity down, on another day we'd have got all 3 points with ease yesterday no problems, probably if Wacka was in goal I hate to say or if Grigg could hit the back of the net instead of putting it over the bar from 2 inches out!- saw the first Brentford goal and it seemed Grof dived in for the ball far too early resulting in a crud punch landing straight to a Brentford player on the edge of the box.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby saddlersam » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:51 pm

Darth Vader wrote:
saddlerken wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:probably if Wacka was in goal I hate to say .


Have you seen him play recently? I haven't, but I would guess judging by his enormous belly that his agility could be called into question.

Grof shouldn't even be mentioned if you ask me, the 4 blokes in front should be stopping the ball getting anywhere near him.


He's got fantastic positioning Walker, knowing such an experienced 'keeper he'd have probably not jumped in like Grof.

The defence might have sorted it out! Like I said, Grof dived right in and flapped a weak punch resulting into a simple dink into the net. He's still a good GK though, Grof, very pleased to have him.



I actually thought it was an excellent finish.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby traymondo » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:03 pm

WelshWalsallBen wrote:Smith out after 3 league games and 2 cup games. Playing a lot better than last year with 2 very young strikers. :shock: .

words fail me

Not me.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby traymondo » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:13 pm

saddlerken wrote:
traymondo wrote:This time last year we would not have got a point from that game.
Progress.
UTS.


Sarcastic I presume?

Not at all, Ken.
For future reference, my sarcastic comments usually end with a :wink: or a :roll: .
:roll:
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Happydays2122 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:31 pm

To be honest 5 points 4 games I'm more than happy with that I was exoecting some right mawlings this season but we should have won yesterday. Smith is clueless at seeing out games and shutting up shop. Clueless. How many times !!!!!!!!! I'm reasonably positive. The Hereford lads seem decent players. Watching bowermans and pattersons goals again. Very composed finishes !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not convinced on Holden. Not commanding enough.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby traymondo » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:48 pm

Happydays2122 wrote:To be honest 5 points 4 games I'm more than happy with that I was exoecting some right mawlings this season but we should have won yesterday. Smith is clueless at seeing out games and shutting up shop. Clueless. How many times !!!!!!!!! I'm reasonably positive. The Hereford lads seem decent players. Watching bowermans and pattersons goals again. Very composed finishes !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not convinced on Holden. Not commanding enough.

How many times, Happydays? I can't be bothered looking it up.
My gut feeling is that the habit of conceding last minute/injury time goals (equalizers and winners) goes way back, beyond Deano?
Shame. I thought after Wendy and Rochdale last season the worm might have turned. But no. :(
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby Sadders » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:47 pm

Had 24 hours to take a look back and their are marked improvements and still some irritating issues that need ironing out.

The defence Is not as good as last seasons - Purkiss and Holden aren't as good as Beevers and Smith and it makes the defence look eratic under pressure, you can blatantly see that the centre backs part like the north sea at times, something that I think Holden is at fault for. On the flip side, we kept County out, Brentford previously this season and to be honest, despite conceding 3 goals against Doncaster they didnt really cut us apart. Im not slating him as yesterday he was steady, but Purkiss is a disaster waiting to happen and his lack of pace, clumsy looking run and general play will be targeted by other teams. Grof is turning into a complete liability IMO and a period of a couple of months on the bench and training pitch with Wacka and Mick Kearns is needed - his punch was useless for the 1st and he looked yet again a complete idiot diving for the 2nd, it was right on his back post.

Secondly. We've now seen Grigg in 4-5-1 and a 4-4-2 and it's blatantly obvious that currently he isn't up to anything. Yesterday he looked so much poorer than Bowerman it was incredible. Not only did Bowerman hustle more, but he looks to have more intent, more pace and for a man that's slightly smaller and thinner in build than Grigg he wins a lot of headers - more than Grigg does anyway. For thoose who called Grigg the clubs most natural goalscorer. Bowerman has illustrated twice already this season that he has the best composure infront of goal, 1 time at Oldham when he was 1 on 1 and yesterday when he beat 2 defenders, on his weak foot, before slotting under an advancing keeper with his wrong foot - he's miles ahead of Grigg in all terms of his game, except maybe his fitness.

I've also noticed throughout the side, that as soon as we take a lead or come under the cosh that Flo becomes very isolated and hides away from the game. Now that's not being critical of Flo, as I think he's the best player we've had in absolutely years, a class above and a career at a low premier league side awaits him - but toward the end of last season when Chambers was injured, it was noticeable how our defence looked exposed with Mantom/Cuvelier protecting them. Yesterday we came under the cosh and he barely touched the ball in the 2nd half, he didnt put a tackle in and the defence became exposed. I do fear for the physical side of our team when teams bombard us. Featherstone, Paterson, Grigg, Hemmings, Cuvelier are all little chaps and we'l be even smaller when Brandy is fit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the positive side. I cannot believe how many people haven't commented on Taylor?! He was shoe in for my MOTM. Constantly got forward and over-lapped with quality, probably the best attacking left back performance since the days of Danny Fox. He was clean in posession and used it wisely, got forward, provided an extra bit of guile for Paterson's 1st - I thought he was absolutely excellent, as good as any other outfield player on the pitch.

The football we played in the 1st half was nothing short of excellent. Flo was expert, Paterson had his best half in yonks, Hemmings got forward and used his left foot to his advantage, he and Taylor down that wing could be one of the better left sides in the division, certainly in the bottom half. Tranmere fans and the blades spoke highly of him before he got injured. We looked entirely more dangerous going forward with Bowerman next to Grigg, hopefully that'l change to Bowerman and Brandy in the next couple of weeks or even a target man and Bowerman with Brandy off the bench.

The side we have is young and in-experienced. But it has potential, it has more potential than last year's, especially in the middle of the park - an area we've notoriously moaned about for years. I'd say our current midfield of Chambers, Featherstone and Cuvelier is as good as any we've had since we got promoted back in 2006/2007. We are however, going to excite and dissapoint. Their will be afternoon's we expect to win where things will go wrong, their will be afternoon's where we expect a hammering and product a classy performance against the odds. Just like their will be days where we go 2-0 down at home and come back to draw 2-2 etc.

People moan that Smith can't manage, doesn't get his substitutions spot on. I'd argue that he got them spot on and gained us a late point at Oldham and a win against promotion rivals Notts County last week. He doesn't suddenly become some raging retarted blind man within 7 days, he's still learning his trade and for me is showing slow signs of progression, not only in his tactics, but his players and his philosophy of getting not only young lads that can have a sell on value in the future, but teaching them to play football the way it should be played - whilst their earning their trade, something they will thank him for down the line if they do get sold on.

I can tell you alone, Smith would NOT, under any circumstances have gone into the changing rooms at half time and drew out every single defensive pattern possible, told the wingers to hug the touchline and waste time all of the 2nd half, told the strikers to go for the corner after 50 minutes - he wont have told them to try and hold on. It does however seem that the mindset of players these days (Im a sunday league player and I can understand completely) that onc you have a 2-0 lead, the mind says 'right we have 2 goals now, lets play it safe, keep it simple and grind this out' - its just natural. How often do you see on SSN about a team going up at half time, 9 times out of 10 the next word out of the commentators mouth is 'so and so improved in the 2nd half' - which is eactly right. Teams that go down at half time come out with a different attitude in the 2nd half and teams that lead generally speaking come out with a 'we have a lead, lets keep it' attitude.

Smith may have been stupid with his tactics, but he's not Mourihno and he doesn't have 11 minds, 22 legs - so he can't actually control physically what the players on the pitch do, it 99% down to them with his guidance.


Scores.

Grof 2 - Poor distribution whilst under the cosh, flapped at both goals and needs taking out for a few months to grow his game and confidence.

Purkiss 5 - Steadier, but doesn't convince me - will have some mares along the way
Holden 6 - He seems okay, but without making too many mistakes its noticeable that our defence is more erratic and less solid. He's just come from 2 teams that we're relegated from this league, no co-incidence for me.
Butler 7 - Not at his best, but made some vital headers. The only leader we have on the pitch.
Taylor 8 - My MOTM, got forward well. Showed his class, knows the game and will provide an outlet - excited by him.

Hemmings 6 - Decent 1st half, faded 2nd. We dont get him involved enough.
Featherstone 6 - Looks okay, spreads a good ball but gets caught in possession at times
Cuvelier 7 - Absolutely miles ahead of the rest on the pitch, a top draw championship player - 2nd half he needs to man up and get stuck in.
Paterson 6 - Good first half, woeful 2nd. Needs to drop the Ronaldo tricks and know when to release the ball.

Grigg 4 - Didnt win a thing, provided barely a threat and has no sense of movement. He's a league 2 at best striker
Bowerman 8 - Excellent from him before he tired. Wins his fair share, battles hard and hustles defenders along.

Subs -
Baxendale - Crap.
Williams - Did he touch the ball?

Hard few weeks coming up. MK Dons will beat us, Portsmouth away, Stevenage away and Orient looking like to have a new manager.
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Re: Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

Postby SWS1 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:52 pm

Louise wrote:Have waited 24 hours to post just to regroup after what felt like a defeat.
Firstly Grof is the last line of defence , not the first. I love Jimmy as much as the next but he is the past and dropping Grof is not the answer.
I do wonder about Deano and what he is watching - the subs were just not what was required and sadly I think by the last 5 mins we were lucky to get a draw. Other Managers seem to out think him tactically and that really does worry me.
I actually think we miss Macken and certainly need that type of player who can hold the ball up front.
Its gonna be a long winter and for yet another season I see nothing but a relegation battle.
Will be there against the Franchise on Saturday but more in hope than belief we can win.

We did win, though! :wink: :D
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