Do the players care anymore!

#1

Now Iv been a Walsall fan most of my life being taken for the 1st time 40 years ago and tbh I have no expectations at the start of any season. I have seen the odd good Walsall team but Iv seen a lot more poor teams. These players are no where near the worse I have seen for talent.
I can accept losing now with out getting to upset but the last 2 home matches I have walked out angry and upset at the way we have seemed to just rolled over and given up would say some players look like they don’t even care
That is something Walsall teams over the years have always done cared and worked their socks off and I could not ask for more. By some miracle we are still alive
Rant over

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#2

Yes they still care.

Unfortunately bad management has turned a group of players good enough to win 9, draw 5 and lose only twice in the first 16 matches of this season into the dejected bunch they now are. Team morale is so low that they are getting worse and worse week by week.

The performances we saw earlier this season were not a fluke; there were too many good results for that. We had a decent squad, able to give us a chance of the play-offs. Not good enough to go through the season without more than a few setbacks, but we did not have a manager capable of taking setbacks in his stride.

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#3

Agree, Bernie. There is enough talent in the squad to to be comfortable mid-table, if not pushing for the play-off spots. It saddens me greatly to say it, but Deano was just not up to the job.

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#4

Based on what exactly? The ones that were here struggled to stay up last season and there is not one proven League One performer in the squad.

Yes, they started well, but were found out. When Oztumer was found out he was still class - thats the difference.

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#5

I find it extremely hard to believe that some people are still peddling this one :roll_eyes:

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#6

I do not understand “found out” in this context. What does it mean to say that a team or a player has been “found out”? I really would like to know, because it sounds like a meaningless phrase that explains nothing. What was “found out” about Oztumer that everyone did not know after seeing his first few matches?

This squad had the talent to win 9 and lose only twice in the first 16 matches this season until the manager changed the tactics and started having a go at the players. Nobody found anything out about this squad except that if they were badly managed they would not be successful, and that is true about all teams.

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#7

Show me the talent in the squad? Name the players that are going to go on and have solid League One - or above - careers? The one lad that has gone on to do well is Bakayoko - hounded out of this club again.

Oztumer on his day was unplayable. These lot are not, even on their best days if a manager wants to stop them they can with a simple system!

I’m not saying Keates was blameless but to say this lot are capable of the Play Offs with absolutely nothing to back it up is nonsense. I have already asked; name me one proven, League One player in our squad? Go on, I’ll wait…

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#8

They were found out.

All players and teams in this league will be studied by the opposition. We hit a few by surprise to begin with and then found that if you doubled up on Zeli and Gino we had nothing. Good players like Sawyers will adapt. We had no one able to do that.

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#9

Players are dazzled by their own ineptitude.

Somehow despite one point since March 9th the team remain just three points off safety. Let’s say Southend only take two points from their last three, Wimbledon only take a draw from their last three and Scunny lose their last three then getting to 46 points is all that is needed to stay up.

Not likely but not impossible either. That would mean just one win or three draws would be needed. Have no confidence whatsoever the team is even capable of that if they were even told in a group meeting that is all that would be required.

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#10

At the moment there is every reason to be negative about every single player at the club but there is talent there, August and September proved that. They have definitely lost their way but on occasions they have shown ability but there are certain elements that lack application.

In answer to your question I think that currently Edwards, Dobson, Cook, Kinsella and Gordon would all find a home in League 1. Then with the right coaching you could possibly add Roberts, Ferrier and Scarr to that list. They are definitely not the best team we have had but they should be doing better than they currently are. For me I just cannot get over that Barnsley performance, if only they could have produced that one in three matches and we would be fine. Bad management or bad attitudes ? Most likely a combination of the two but either way the league table don’t lie and whether the players care or not remains to be seen.

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#11

The ability of this squad was proved in the first 16 matches of the season. A bad squad full of players who are not good enough for this division could not win 9 and only lose 2 of the first 16 matches. That would be impossible.

There are a lot of random elements in football and chance plays its part every match, but the odds against a shockingly poor team making the sort of start we made this season are astronomical. I can accept that things went our way generally in some of our early matches, and some reversion to the mean would be expected, but the total capitulation that has happened is not because of lack of talent but because of lack of leadership.

Football players are not machines, they cannot play well when lacking in confidence.

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#12

I agree entirely with you on this. There is no way we should be in the bottom 4. However due to mismanagement the players have totally lost confidence and the team looks like it is doomed. Hopefully the lucky point on Saturday may give them some belief. Lets hope so…I don’t want to watch Division 4 football next season or any further seasons.
The long and short of it is that DK just didn’t have the knowhow to cope once we had a few bad results. As I have posted before we also had the Martin affair which I think had the effect of undermining any confidence that DK had. It is a very sad story …local hero returns but cannot deliver as he and his fans would want him too. In hindsight the Board should have acted earlier.

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#13

No they don’t care. Partly because of confidence and they’ve just accepted fate. But mostly because they’ve got deals sorted elsewhere and will leave this mess behind. Unforgivable. Imagine accepting going down as one of the worst Walsall sides some fans have ever seen.

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#14

Obviously.

Otherwise they wouldn’t be winning pens in the last minute. Never mistake a lack of talent for a lack of effort. Accrington and Bradford away aside I haven’t seen any existence of a lack of caring.

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#15

I think they care. But they aren’t a team. There are a few who think they are better than they are, a few who think they should be playing when they aren’t, a few who think they should be playing in a different position, a few who think the people they play with are ■■■■, a few who think the fans are ■■■■, a few who think others aren’t trying, a few who openly don’t like the management/coaching staff and a few who care a bit more about physical self preservation than the preservation of WFC’s league one status.

In that big ven diagram some players sit in several circles and at least one is in right in the middle where they all overlap.

You lob all that together and when the talent at the club actually spreads pretty evenly between League One and Conference North then it is a recipe for disaster. So I think they care but carry around in their heads a completely different set of agendas and beliefs from each other which is leading to the shambles we see before us.

Keates built this and actually nurtured and stoked much of it too. It is one hell of a rebuilding job from here. I’m really hoping we’re not in double drop territory this time next year.

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#16

The best player in that early season run was sold at the first opportunity and we haven’t looked right since!

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#17

Very good post. We are in a very dangerous potential double drop situation. For the 3rd time in 4 seasons, we’re facing a major overhaul of playing staff and, if we make the wrong managerial appointment and get the recruitment wrong, there’s every chance of dropping straight through the next league.

It needs someone from outside. O’Connor is not the person to lead us forward at all, from what I’ve seen and heard.

One other point about player recruitments, and this is something Whitney got wrong in a couple of cases and keates in several - I remember a manager from the past saying it’s never a good idea to get players from relegated clubs because they have the wrong mindset and can sometimes not snap out of it (something our players would do well to remember and address). If you look at our squad, we have the likes of Guthrie (relegated with Crewe I believe), Laird who fought a relegation battle at forest green, Osbourne likewise, Ismail who was relegated with bury and then our own players who just about survived relegation last time out and have managed to turn a good position early season into relegation this. It needs a clear out of a number of those players because, quite simply, they’re used to losing. And, somehow, from somewhere, we need to sign some winners. Players who are used to be on the winning side and who hate losing are essential.

Who do we have? Devlin? Possibly, but it looks like he won’t be here unfortunately. Kinsella? Likewise. You might have said Cook not so long back but the last couple of performances question that. So where are our leaders? Where are the players who will really bust a gut to win a football match?

Big decisions to be made this summer and the consequences for getting them wrong are dire.

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#18

Some excellent posts on this thread.

How anyone feels we coulda shoulda been a playoff team this season is beyond me.

Fundamentally this team was almost relegated last year and to it were added 2 non league strikers and various former players, most of whom had played in struggling sides.
All to be managed by a non league manager and inexperienced support staff. Add to this, that most were signed at the end of the summer, it was a recipe for disaster.

The August/September results papered over the cracks and as many have said when teams worked us out, Keates didn’t know what to do. Martin and Ferrier upset the apple cart, the stadiums decay became more apparent and Ginnelly was sold.

But perhaps worse of all, the January transfer window was a disaster. Too many signings, that haven’t played or added to the squad, that added to the dressing room uncertainty and a manager that was ultimately found wanting on lots of levels. IT IS NO SURPRISE AT ALL, THAT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE.

It’s just a miracle that fluke a win tomorrow and we still have a chance.

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#19

I went to watch a real HONEST game of football yesterday, Ilkeston town v Walsall Wood, Where the players played with pride and passion and clearly DO care,and EVERY player put in a shift, something that some of our loyal supporters would kill for at this moment in time, the wood have a small connection with the saddlers, with Byfield as manager and Rowley one of the players we let go last year, also Peter Till and Joey Butlin in the team, it was a fantastic day out helped by the fact the wood won 4-0 to go top of the league on goal difference due to the fact that Ilkeston were top before the game, with 2 games to go it is an exciting end to the season for them, i had a wry smile during the game when the announcer kept on referring to the wood as just Walsall, “and the scorer of Walsall’s 4th goal” i haven’t heard that for some time lol, i will be there on monday and again saturday to hopefully see them promoted, ok i have jumped on the bandwagon at the end of a successful season for them, but i went in support of my nephew Reevo, and found something else in the process, a local team with players supporters and owner all wanting the same thing, a successful team on the pitch, and maybe a bit of profit on the commercial side, as opposed to the other way round.

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#20

Problem with this is we are only in the market for these players , the ones that no one else wants because as you state , they aren’t winners and winners will come at a price Bonser will not pay

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