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It’s not absurd, it’s a standard business valuation technique.

What I’d call absurd is your assertion that someone valued the club at £4m, despite not having made that in profit over 20years and being nigh on £2m in debt.

What planet do you lot live on?


What, to value a business at nothing because it has (manageable) debt? :joy:

Christ I’m never coming to you for a valuation.


No because it has no assets you utter cretin. If it went bump tomorrow, how would that debt get paid?

It wouldn’t.


Lets not bring sense into this business-nouse ■■■■ swinging contest.

Football operates like no other business I have ever seen - its similar to HMRC. Unless you have witnessed operations from the inside you have no clue how it runs - other business regulations don’t seem to apply. Nice to see this boards answer to Alan Sugar has all the answers based on his experiences in the cut throat football business world.

Oh no, sorry its just arrogant Phil again; the font of all knowledge on football matters…


What you on about now?

I’m simply pointing out how the club is structured, what it’s debts are and how that makes it’s value next to nothing.

You don’t need to be a financial expert to know that a business that hasn’t made £2m in profit over 20 years cannot be worth £4m. That’s not arrogance, it’s GCSE business studies.


I’m going to ignore the obvious “if it went bump tomorrow” nonsense (considering we are nowhere near that position) but scare mongering about that is insinuating we have no way of raising money other than selling assets. Or that a new investor wouldn’t have a completely different idea to how to grow a football club compared to you or I.

It boils down to one simple real world fact. If an investor went to Mr Bonsor tomorrow and said “the club owes money so is worth nothing, can I have it?” the meeting would be about as short as our annual AGM.


Whether we are near that position or not, is not the point.

The point is that if we were to go bump (for whatever reason, at whatever time), the money that could be raised from selling the clubs’ assets wouldn’t cover the clubs debt.

The club could well be kept going as a going concern, but with it’s profit record, it’s route to clearing the debt would be long.


There are years recently when we haven’t made any repayments on the loans (and thus they have increased, or remained the same).


*Insert Michael Jackson eating popcorn GIF *


It’s exactly the point but as I said I ignored it.

We owe, by your figures, 2 million pounds. We have made in the last three years nearly three quarters of a million profit. I don’t think it’s as drastic as you are making out but even if it where, an investor would know that and would adjust their offer accordingly. It doesn’t make the club worth nothing.

But I’m the one being ridiculous.


I think the focus on debt is misleading - most businesses carry debt. In itself, debt is not a bad thing. You’d need to compare Walsall’s debt ratios to other established League 1 clubs.
I also think its misleading to say the club has no assets when the last set of audited accounts show it has around £7 million of Current/Non-Current Assets.

In terms of valuating it by earnings, its one of a number of methods. It shouldn’t be discounted totally but it is flawed - for example if someone is slamming in big accruals (say for example, to pay back a big loan maybe?) it would throw it out. I’d probably be looking closer at the cash flow than the profit.

Personally I wouldn’t put together a bid price for the club without a bit more information.


Depends, like I said, on what deal could be reached on the debt owed to JB. Also depends on what JB sees as his future. Can he guarantee the profitability over the next few years? What is the likelihood of that debt being paid off, and in what timeframe? Based on this, is he better cutting his losses, or leaving the debt in the club?


Alright, bossy…




Literally me on my lunch break right now.


From memory, around £5.5m of that £7m is in the lease for the stadium. Show’s up on the accounts as an asset, but should the club enter financial difficulties it’s not an asset they could sell, nor raise cash against, in actual fact it ties the club in to an overhead of around 7% of revenue. Interesting bit of accounting trickery, but should ■■■■ hit the fan, I think it could become an issue…


Which is all complete supposition and would all come down to a deal. I never said a deal would be easy.

I’m just pointing out that the club isn’t worth zero. I’d have thought that was obvious but…


You also can’t even spell the owners surname, so forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously!

Anyway, I’ve got a business to run!


As I said, I’d want a lot more details in a lot more areas… but if that Asset is the stadium lease, there must be some sort of economic benefit from it otherwise they wouldn’t be allowed to call it an asset.

Just thinking aloud, but I guess the right to hold markets/concerts, etc in the stadium would be the economic benefit? Wouldn’t that add value to a selling price?


Ah of course. there’s always grammar to fall back on when there’s no substance to your point. Straight out of the “Piers Morgan Talking ■■■■■■■■” hand book.


Me too mate, but I don’t need to crow about it to inflate my self-importance in order to win an argument.

You know as much as anyone else that does not work in the football industry about how it works behind closed doors - ■■■■ all!