Is Keates Good Enough?


#61

Have you thought he could maybe say neither and just say all of that in private if he really feels he needs to. It’s a defence mechanism to distance himself from the players and their ■■■■ performances a “well it wasn’t me” kind of answer. Not very managerial.
Whitney used to do it all the time too, everyone liked it at first but it soon wears thin once people actually realise the management style is also part of the problem. See Sir Alex Ferguson for how to talk about your players in the media and what he did behind closed doors. See Whitney for how far slagging off your players at every opportunity gets you.
People are allowed to criticise without it meaning we’ll all be hanging banners Keates Out banners, you know?


#62

And then he’d be criticised for deflecting :man_shrugging:

It boils down to winning and losing. It doesn’t matter what he says when we are losing, same for Whitney. That’s why Alex Ferguson got away with it. Because more often than not he was winning.


#63

I’ll get shot for this , but compare a Keates interview to that of Whitney.

Whitney was always very bullish and held an awful lot of self belief that he could always turn things around. Now look at Keates , he looks beaten, doesn’t highlight positives and generally doesn’t talk particularly well.

I just hope the players don’t feed off this body language.


#64

Whitney was, after all, a superb performance coach. He talked the talk when it came to that role and his work under Smith was a part of what made that team click. His positivity was almost annoying at times but you could see what he was trying to do whereas, as you say, I listen to keates and I feel like we might as well give in already. That’s where keates needs someone alongside, to take on that different role. None of his coaching staff seem to satisfy that requirement.


#65

Man management, leadership, and the ability to inspire others to run through a brick wall for you is something very few have and if it is not in you it never will be.
When things are not going well, a player surely needs to see something better than Dean stood on the sidelines alone, silent, with a piece of paper in his hand.


#66

Some managers are less animated on sidelines but demand respect through other ways , I’d be interested to see where Keates sits.


#67

It’s noticeable that we seem to lack leadership on the field as well as off it!


#68

My concern with Keates is more that he just looks like he has no idea what to do next. Ok he is a quiet bloke, some managers are, but he seems to have no thoughts on how to change a game. Whitney was tactically clueless but Deano looks no better.

Still behind him but he’s got to show something different or we’re down.


#69

I think that is partly a reason for swapping Dobson and Kinsella for Edwards and Osbourne. However leadership wasn’t a problem at the start of the season when Dobbo was a beast.


#70

This is my main concern. Keates was downbeat when we we winning, which I thought was the wrong approach given that we are a relatively inexperienced team. From that approach we have the treatment of certain individual players that to me has undermined their potential positive contribution to the team. Dropping Morris after his confidence was high following the last minute winner at Brizzle was a poor decision given how his performances had seemingly ebbed and flowed on the basis of his confidence, now we have the Kinsella situation. And this has gone on against the backdrop of the Russell Martin fiasco. Not great management of either individuals or “the group” when you have limited resources and are looking for (and had found) that “team being greater than the sum of the parts” element that is a crucial ingredient for a team trying to punch above its weight so to speak. My other concern is the identity of the team, and the playing style. That now too seems lost. So when Keates talks about getting back to basics, I’m not really sure what he’s on about.


#71

Correct Mazza, but even Poch at Spurs gets up now and again but Dean shows absolutely tiddly squat so looks like he is in over his head to be frank.
You can learn to be a manager but not many learn whilst a manager.


#72

add to this the Ferrier situation which I also find laughable, Dean clearly had intentions to get rid the club have put their hands up to that.

Now for me to start a player on the Saturday which you had tried to get rid of almost 24hrs prior is bizarre.

You can claim it’s motivational but for a strong minded manager would of made him earn his place.


#73

I think another problem Keates has created, he’s now got a huge squad of players to manage, that’s not going to be easy for him. Loads of loan players that will be expecting first team experience in what is now a pressurised, tense and fairly negative environment. New players that need to hit the ground running, existing players several of whom are struggling to get in the match-day squad but are still very much here, and might well be needed like Zeli, Kinsella, etc. And what you thought would have been squad players (from pre-season and Checkatrade etc), that are now nowhere near…Kouhyar, Candlin, leivesey, Bates etc. Out of that lot he’s got to fashion a team that’s got to have the will and cohesion to grind out results in a relegation scrap, it ain’t going to be easy. Personally now, If I were Keates I would be privately realising I’ve screwed things up somewhat and be looking for a get out of jail card to get survival on the board and get through to the summer. That to me looking at this squad, would focus on our attacking strength. We’ve got Cook and Jarvis, and although the new lads are an unknown quantity that’s where I reckon we’re at now, get them in along with Dobbo and Kinsella in the middle and go for it.


#74

But Masi is adamant that DK didn’t want Ferrier to leave and was instrumental in persuading him to stay…if true it explains why he played on Saturday.


#75

The stark reality of Ferrier is that he has scored 1 goal, a penalty, in 24 appearances. He either doesn’t score goals, or he’s out of form right now and might score some in the future when he’s back in form. What we currently have is a short term project of 16 games, the immediately up-coming ones appearing to be absolutely key. We most certainly can’t carry players that are, at best out of form. Virtually everyone who’s account of Saturday’s game I’ve read said we were better when Dobson, Oteh and Blackett-Taylor came on, is there anyone out there that with hindsight wouldn’t have started with those three and try and get on the front-foot rather than hand the initiative to an equally bang out of form opposition?


#76

We definitely looked better when they come on, for me only one of Devlin or Norman should be starting at right back and get Blackett-Taylor on the wing and be more positive against these teams we should be beating

As much as I want Ferrier to do well, he just isn’t cutting atm so I’d start Oteh instead, he looked sharp when he came on

Plus these players won’t be low on confidence like the players that’d be dropped for them and might pick up the rest of the team


#77

I called for both Oteh and Blackett-Taylor to start before the game in favour of both Ferrier and Devlin before Saturday.

But watching the game they were arguably our two best players first half along with Joe Edwards. Devlin and Edwards tailed off second half but I thought Ferrier was a constant threat and the effort was superb. For me it’s harsh to suggest either should lose their place based on that performance.


#78

I’d love to know what game you were watching.

Devlin was absolutely awful first half - and second. Out of position, coming inside when he should have gone down the line, and didn’t actually do anything.

He was like a lost sheep.


#79

Apart from hit the post with a strong run into the box?


#80

Which up until our goal was literally our only decent attacking move of the game but yeah lets not go against the narrative.