Interesting discussion. Not sure which way I come down, but important to remember that Whitney was referring to his own signings. Keates seems to be meaning players he inherited. We don’t know whether it was exasperation or a calculated move made to look like it was that. Thirdly we don’t know how much input or how many warnings the people in question previously had in private.
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I understand the point but do not agree with it. He shouldn’t be “one of us”, he should be a rational, professional manager. Whitney was slated for exactly the same emotional stuff.
The day you take emotion out of football I’m not interested anymore. That wasn’t the problem with Whitney.
It was the scapegoating of his own team, the lack of coherent plan that ended up in a slide down the table and the constant mixed messages, like saying blame me not the team then doing exactly that himself, or publically stating he only wanted one loan and then filling his team with them, that was the problem.
I was a big defender of John Whitney but I really don’t get his relevance to this. He hasn’t had the results Keates has had or the repair job.
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Now you are twisting my reasoning. I also enjoy the emotion in football, however, believe that the manager has to rise above it when speaking publicly or risk losing the goodwill of his players. The reference to Whitney should be obvious. He blamed the players not himself (and when he did blame himself there was always a dig at the players in there).
Putting this into context, we have just come off a remarkable comeback against Coventry and a cup replay win away at Sunderland having played well in the draw at home. We were 1-0 down at half time having missed two chances that I would have fancied myself to score from. We then have a poor 45 minutes and Keates feels the need to tell the fans that some of his players need to shape up or ship out - wtf is that all about? If he thought it was that bad then why wait until the third goal before making a change?
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No I’m not. I like the players to show emotion just like the fans and the managers. It’s the fun of sport.
What’s the context of the other games? He did praise the players for those performances? It works both ways. Should he not praise them at all, stay professional, and only do it in private?
I actually addressed that further back in this conversation:
I’m not criticising him for the performance anymore than individual players, specifically. I am criticising what appears to me to be disloyalty to some of his team due to his comments.
It’s not clever im my view , which clearly differs from yours (which is fine btw).
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Well fair enough. The discussion is the fun of this place for me.
But I will say this, if he’s disloyal to a certain couple of them, I don’t blame him. Some have had infinite chances even before he came to this club.
Heard it all before talk talk talk
What do you mean?
I understand why some are appreciative of his candour.
But to me it is bordering on the Mersonesque unfortunately. Merson also won plaudits for the brutal assessment of his own players. Who can forget references to “dog and duck” defending?
Unlike Merson, I have yet to hear Dean admit his own shortcomings. He was also raging after the Sunderland 2-2 but the most culpable person in the Stadium for letting that lead slip was Dean himself. Having got away with making exactly the same mistakes against Wycombe a few weeks earlier it was obvious he hadn’t learned.
I think Keates is doing a decent job but I worry a bit that his learning curve appears quite flat and I also worry that if he keeps berating his players he might lose them. They stopped playing for him after about an hour on Saturday. I really hope his public rants don’t lead to more regular “tools down” moments. I also hope that his relationship with Russell Martin, especially if Martin is earning more than the others, doesn’t drive a further wedge.
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Welcome to league football deano 
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I am going to hate myself for this but I agree with Belph 
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I think we may have to agree to disagree on the “other” topic 
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initially i welcomed his strong words because i thought that if it got a reaction then it would have been worth it, but i hadn’t considered it having a negative reaction?. If he has done it to distract the flack from himself then shame on him.
I don’t see it like that. He can point to players released in last 5 years like Taundry and Flanagan who are now well down in non league and will say to any coasting player do they want to be that in 2024?
No good Kieron Morris being upset he’s playing for Boreham Wood then when DK pretty much is warning him it will happen unless he shows more effort and dedication and he’s not the only one in that boat.
We’ll see on Saturday I guess. One thing I don’t want to see is 4-4-2 like the Bradford game never happened as I think the Posh attacking players will rip that apart just as much as the bottom table team did.
That’s where DK needs not to be as “naive” as his players. I expect it will be a defensive 5-3-2, is Dobbo back?
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I just think he has so much to learn in his (fairly) new roll , and maybe his reaction was a little knee jerky tbh .
Whether it’s because he was mad with himself at his short falling’s ( and knowing he would probably come in for a bit of flak from the result ) …or with certain player’s he may of been warning behind closed door’s previously
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He said the playing for futures line about 10 days ago after a game (maybe Pompey or Sunderland) so would imagine he was frustrated the words hadn’t sunk in after the clueless second half performance and lack of fight.
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Well if that’s the case he may as well bring in another 11 players in january 
I don’t disagree with the message , just the way it is delivered.
This could result in serious career implications for these players and therefore inappropriate messages via the media are out of order in my view.
What is he trying to achieve by it? If he thinks it will motivate them then OK, but in my experience of managing and developing people / teams it is old school and doesn’t work anymore.
Deal with it with the individuals concerned and if decides to let them go then fine, but do it in a dignified manner.