That we were a surprise package? That other teams have now worked us out? That Ferrier is no longer a headache to other teams? The irony is, we’d be a lot less worried if we had a few less points now,but were ,now instead of then,beginning to show that form. The worry I think comes from the fact that,underneath the inconsistency,there’s little evidence that this squad is learning. As I’ve said,the January window will be crucial.
Whether through tiredness or loss of endeavour we’ve lost our intensity. We started the season aggressively, closed down and attacked quickly, not done that for a while now.
I said to the lads around me today, on 20 mins of today’s game, if that was Whitney as manager and we were 0-2 down after 9 mins at home on box8ng day the Lynch riot mob would have been out.
Why is Keates getting an easy ride - for me he’s make it really poor decisions at the moment
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So you’d rather we all piled on a manager and created a negative atmosphere rather than giving one the benefit of the doubt because he’s still performing above all expectations. Interesting theory.
Whitney would have got that flack because he took a team that finished third and turned them into a mid table team. You are right, Keates has done the same. Except the team he’s done it with so far was relegation fodder.
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People need to understand that Keates has been in the job 6 months or so? Do we all really think 1 transfer window and 6 months is enough to change this joke of a squad into anything better than a midtable side ?
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No. And they’re still higher than the majority on here predicted in August. I think the worry is the direction they seem to be going. At one point it seemed that whatever their limitations against better teams, they seemed able to pick up enough points against poorer teams. The last two matches against teams in the relegation zone suggest that’s no longer the case.
This topic winds me up and really does highlight the fickleness of some fans.
I’m not going to say that the results against Bradford and Brizzle are excusable, but to be slating the management and comparing them to someone who had 2 years and 4 transfer windows and left the club in a relegation scrap surrounded by a poisonous atmosphere the likes of which I can’t recall in my time as a Saddler, when Keates has had half a season and a single transfer window…
Yes, we’re all disappointed after how we started.
Yes, we’re struggling to find form right now.
But come on. Keates needs to learn and learn quick and the players need to start playing again, but let’s keep our heads and back the lads. I know this errs towards “happy clapping” that many deride on here, but it’s still early days for our inexperienced manager and inexperienced team who were assembled on whatever scraps Boner deems necessary.
Things need to pick up but I have faith they will. In Deano we trust.
UTS
LD
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Being fair to Whitney, he lost most of the decent / influential players at the end of that season, but his biggest mistake was rather than build on what he had been left with, he decided to throw the baby out with the bath water and introduce his own way of playing.
Keates is not getting much grief given the history on this website , I reckon, because of his status as a player at the club. Some of the recent performances / results have been awful and compared to Whitney he is clearly being given the benefit of the doubt whilst displaying the same naivety and inexperience.
Not that I think he deserves vitriol any more than I thought Whitney, Smith, Hutchings or Mullins deserved it. Reasoned criticism is fine by me but OTT abuse is not.
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Can’t argue he’s had some bad results recently. He’s also had some very good ones and took us to the third round of if the cup. Something that was constantly used as a criticism of Whitney.
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“This isn’t Keates’ fault”. I get that sentiment and the view that Keates inherited some problem areas.
But that view does need to acknowledge that Keates is struggling. For example the view that our defensive woes are primarily down to the Whitney legacy doesnt quite stand up. Keates has signed a new goalkeeper and a centre-half on permanent contracts. He has also signed a full back and a centre half on loan whilst renewing the loan signing of a Whitney centre-half. Despite Dean having made these signings and given that Martin in particular was signed as a “marque” to shore up the defence, yesterday he still picked the Whitney five. Is it budget or is it judgement? I’d venture we’re not paying Russell Martin in bolts and washers.
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Perfectly summed up, is it Keates fault probably not. Was Keates the right man at the right time probably not in my opinion.
The club needed a wise head after 2 years of bad decision making.
I still believe Keates is a couple of seasons away from gaining the required experience to improve the team , hopefully the club and fans give him that time.
I’m far from anti-Keates,but the elephant in the room is that Keates signings ,loan and permanent, have at best been patchy so far. Only Cook has been an undisputed success. Ginneley was generally considered OK in comparison with others ,with Preston’s surprise interest perhaps improving people’s view.
Hopefully it’s all part of a learning curve with no long-term harm done. Only a suggestion,but maybe he needs to use more objective,Moneyball-type analysis. Martin in particular looks like a signing made with too much subjective input.
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Slightly disingenuous to site signing a new goalkeeper as a failure to sort out the defence. It was the one area of the defence that didn’t need sorting and is quite clearly a necessary budget backup option.
The current keeper that Whitney lucked upon after signing a terrible first choice option that now warns a bench in Scotland.
You could say the same of Wilson.
As for the resigning of Fitzwater that was generally seen as a good move after last seasons performances no?
The Martin signing is like me playing Football Manager, looking at players I recognise - who’ve been released from teams in the league above.
Not had the impact I expected.
I think people have forgotten that a lot of the signings were last minute and 8th or 9th choice.
People would be horrified to learn Leahy and Devlin are two of the top earners at the club. The reason we have no real back up for them, is how can you justify spending that much of the budget on full backs?
We just simply can’t afford it. Dean has been in 6 months but has his hands tied behind his back with the ridiculous squad he was left with.
That’s a fair point regarding loans and ,Martin aside,the frees. But have Martin, clearly a top choice of DK,and, Cook aside, the paid for signings, lived up to the expectations Keates himself said he had for them? As I’ve said, providing we stay up, these might turn out to be useful experiences for Keates in the longer-term.
How is the squad ridiculous? I would argue that, individually, Devlin, Leahy, and Guthrie are decent players at this level with the right guidance, and that only really leaves Dobson, Roberts, and Kinsella as the other players who get a regular start who weren’t signed by Keates, and I’m pretty sure all three have shown both ability, and potential.
I think Martin earns more than Leahy and Devlin. He was Keates’s punt. It hasn’t worked on the field and I’m not sure what it has done to the spirit off it either.
The gang of mis-shapes, mistakes and mis-fits that gelled so wonderfully at the start of the season were told that the boss had this mate who had a sprinkling of wisdom and stardust that they didn’t possess. These things would rub off on them and they would all be better for it.
That was definitely judgement rather than budget led and it has made us worse.
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What? How can it make us worse? We didn’t “replace” anybody with Martin, he was an addition.
An addition that has now been dropped and those original players are now playing. I can understand thinking he hasn’t improved us. How can it have made us worse?
I think PT is suggesting that Martin’s signing ,and all the promises that came with it ,could have had a negative effect on morale. We don’t know,but it’s certainly possible.
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