Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

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NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD
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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:16 pm

scott_powell wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:
Mazza01 wrote:Seriously this is just arguing for arguing sake. It really is pathetic.

ElNombre is clearly an expert in fitness and recovery let's just leave it there.


Obviously :lol: :lol: :lol:


Don't worry, Hoddle, a bloke who highly rates John Stones, mentioned fatigue so it must be factual.




Hoddle who said kids are born disabled because their parents sinned.(He is the end of a bell and good at it)

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:23 pm

El_Nombre wrote:Tyler Roberts should have started Saturday. Doesn’t matter that he played Thursday in a different country. Physically impossible to be tired in October.


The fact is most clubs have roughly the same amount of players, roughly the same age range as each other and have played roughly the same amount of games. Therefore the level of fatigue between different clubs as early in the season as October should be negligible.

Just another Whitney deflecting the blame attempt.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:32 pm

tinned wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Tyler Roberts should have started Saturday. Doesn’t matter that he played Thursday in a different country. Physically impossible to be tired in October.


The fact is most clubs have roughly the same amount of players, roughly the same age range as each other and have played roughly the same amount of games. Therefore the level of fatigue between different clubs as early in the season as October should be negligible.

Just another Whitney deflecting the blame attempt.


I gave the figures earlier on to demonstrate why that isn’t always the case. Got ridiculed for googling things. I really don’t see what the time of the year has to do with playing a lot of games in a short amount of time with fewer players with more as starters with less rotation.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:16 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
tinned wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Tyler Roberts should have started Saturday. Doesn’t matter that he played Thursday in a different country. Physically impossible to be tired in October.


The fact is most clubs have roughly the same amount of players, roughly the same age range as each other and have played roughly the same amount of games. Therefore the level of fatigue between different clubs as early in the season as October should be negligible.

Just another Whitney deflecting the blame attempt.


I gave the figures earlier on to demonstrate why that isn’t always the case. Got ridiculed for googling things. I really don’t see what the time of the year has to do with playing a lot of games in a short amount of time with fewer players with more as starters with less rotation.



So come the Christmas period, when games are coming thick and fast, what excuse shall be used then ?
The "fatigue" bollocks has been dished out in October so will it be wrong type of snow ?
These are professional football players, who have had the equivalent of a six week holiday in the summer, who, according to their illustrious leader, are "fatigued" after between 6 to 8 weeks of a 9 month season.
If this is the future of football god help us.
We might as well fudge now and take up Crochet.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:36 pm

swampysaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
tinned wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:Tyler Roberts should have started Saturday. Doesn’t matter that he played Thursday in a different country. Physically impossible to be tired in October.


The fact is most clubs have roughly the same amount of players, roughly the same age range as each other and have played roughly the same amount of games. Therefore the level of fatigue between different clubs as early in the season as October should be negligible.

Just another Whitney deflecting the blame attempt.


I gave the figures earlier on to demonstrate why that isn’t always the case. Got ridiculed for googling things. I really don’t see what the time of the year has to do with playing a lot of games in a short amount of time with fewer players with more as starters with less rotation.



So come the Christmas period, when games are coming thick and fast, what excuse shall be used then ?
The "fatigue" bollocks has been dished out in October so will it be wrong type of snow ?
These are professional football players, who have had the equivalent of a six week holiday in the summer, who, according to their illustrious leader, are "fatigued" after between 6 to 8 weeks of a 9 month season.
If this is the future of football god help us.
We might as well fudge now and take up Crochet.


Depends how often we can rotate the players and still play a decent team over Christmas really. Hopefully Flo will come back and one or two players will come into better form to give us more options. Kory Roberts looks every bit as good as Donnellan at the moment so hopefully he gets a bit more game time.

But I don’t really know why I’m sensibly addressing your points considering the fact that I’ve answered the points about fitness camps, ex pros talking about fatigue and so on and you haven’t bothered answering and just made more sensationalised posts.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:32 am

This threads making me tired.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:44 pm

"After that game I was surprised to hear Whitney say his team was tired. It’s a bit early in the season to be tired and that’s not the type of thing fans want to hear."

But hey, El_Nombre knows more than Chris Marsh and 99% of Walsall fans. "ITS GOT SOD ALL TO DO WITH THE TIME OF YEAR" apparently :roll: :lol:

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:00 pm

scott_powell wrote:"After that game I was surprised to hear Whitney say his team was tired. It’s a bit early in the season to be tired and that’s not the type of thing fans want to hear."

But hey, El_Nombre knows more than Chris Marsh and 99% of Walsall fans. "ITS GOT SOD ALL TO DO WITH THE TIME OF YEAR" apparently :roll: :lol:



Like I said earlier in the thread maybe the players are in the wrong profession.
Maybe they should take up something less taxing like a hard days work in a factory.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Come on lads, give El_Nombre a break.

Some of our players will have played 12 (that's twelve) games since early August. Some of the players they will have played against might have only played 10 or 11 games. That's a BIG difference when you're a fully trained, ultra-fit 23 year old.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:33 pm

scott_powell wrote:"After that game I was surprised to hear Whitney say his team was tired. It’s a bit early in the season to be tired and that’s not the type of thing fans want to hear."

But hey, El_Nombre knows more than Chris Marsh and 99% of Walsall fans. "ITS GOT SOD ALL TO DO WITH THE TIME OF YEAR" apparently :roll: :lol:


Hang on, 99% of fans? :?

It's perfectly obvious that professional sportsmen can become temporarily tired for a short time after an intense period of physical activity.

This is why <insert athlete> doesn't <insert verb> competitively in <insert sport> every other bloody day, and have to build up to big events such as the Olympics or big Internationals.

There will be a residual effect over a prolonged period, which is why athletes tend to tire over a full season of whatever it is they are doing.

Pretty obvious which one Whitney was referring to, so the constant appeals and rather false dismay that it's somehow the other tends to undermine the critique somewhat, as most fans can see it's utterly absurd. The only issue is if Whitney should have said it, knowing the current atmosphere. But it's hardly the end of days and I'm infinitely more interested in the results of the next 4 or 5 games.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:34 pm

tinned wrote:Come on lads, give El_Nombre a break.

Some of our players will have played 12 (that's twelve) games since early August. Some of the players they will have played against might have only played 10 or 11 games. That's a BIG difference when you're a fully trained, ultra-fit 23 year old.


Hope you appreciate the fact that I was forced to stop clapping for the 2 or 3 minutes it took to write my submission. :D :mrgreen:

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:48 pm

There will be a residual effect over a prolonged period, which is why athletes tend to tire over a full season of whatever it is they are doing.


If that is the case why do we not have the likes of McCall, Hurst, Hill, Jackett and the likes preaching the same ?
Their teams have played the same amount of games as our little snowflakes !

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:16 pm

swampysaddler wrote:There will be a residual effect over a prolonged period, which is why athletes tend to tire over a full season of whatever it is they are doing.
If that is the case why do we not have the likes of McCall, Hurst, Hill, Jackett and the likes preaching the same ?
Their teams have played the same amount of games as our little snowflakes !


Probably because it's bloody obvious. But that refers to the end of the season, so I assume you're talking about having a string of games at this point.

I think Nombre covered that in his graph. Fair's fair, it's all in there. I suppose it's up to the manager to highlight that, but the wailing about it has been extreme and a little counter-productive if I may say so for the WhitneyOUTs.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:38 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:There will be a residual effect over a prolonged period, which is why athletes tend to tire over a full season of whatever it is they are doing.
If that is the case why do we not have the likes of McCall, Hurst, Hill, Jackett and the likes preaching the same ?
Their teams have played the same amount of games as our little snowflakes !


Probably because it's bloody obvious. But that refers to the end of the season, so I assume you're talking about having a string of games at this point.

I think Nombre covered that in his graph. Fair's fair, it's all in there. I suppose it's up to the manager to highlight that, but the wailing about it has been extreme and a little counter-productive if I may say so for the WhitneyOUTs.


I don't see any other managers in any of the four divisions (or even non-league for that matter) complaining about fatigue in poxty October.
After the busy Xmas period it would be understandable but not after a dozen games.
It they are actually knackered already, if that is possible for a professional player in October, then serious questions have got to be directed towards the holy one Whitney.
Obviously something is wrong behind the scenes if players are knackered in October after the equivalent of a 5 week holiday in the summer and only 12 games in a season containing over at least 50 games.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:43 pm

swampysaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:There will be a residual effect over a prolonged period, which is why athletes tend to tire over a full season of whatever it is they are doing.
If that is the case why do we not have the likes of McCall, Hurst, Hill, Jackett and the likes preaching the same ?
Their teams have played the same amount of games as our little snowflakes !


Probably because it's bloody obvious. But that refers to the end of the season, so I assume you're talking about having a string of games at this point.

I think Nombre covered that in his graph. Fair's fair, it's all in there. I suppose it's up to the manager to highlight that, but the wailing about it has been extreme and a little counter-productive if I may say so for the WhitneyOUTs.


I don't see any other managers in any of the four divisions (or even non-league for that matter) complaining about fatigue in poxty October.
After the busy Xmas period it would be understandable but not after a dozen games.
It they are actually knackered already, if that is possible for a professional player in October, then serious questions have got to be directed towards the holy one Whitney.
Obviously something is wrong behind the scenes if players are knackered in October after the equivalent of a 5 week holiday in the summer and only 12 games in a season containing over at least 50 games.


Not necessarily.

It's perfectly possible to be knackered for a game in October but to be back to full fitness a couple of weeks later. Loads of players are rested in the Prem in such a manner. This is the bane of my Fantasy Prem team. :( :(

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:34 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:There will be a residual effect over a prolonged period, which is why athletes tend to tire over a full season of whatever it is they are doing.
If that is the case why do we not have the likes of McCall, Hurst, Hill, Jackett and the likes preaching the same ?
Their teams have played the same amount of games as our little snowflakes !


Probably because it's bloody obvious. But that refers to the end of the season, so I assume you're talking about having a string of games at this point.

I think Nombre covered that in his graph. Fair's fair, it's all in there. I suppose it's up to the manager to highlight that, but the wailing about it has been extreme and a little counter-productive if I may say so for the WhitneyOUTs.


I don't see any other managers in any of the four divisions (or even non-league for that matter) complaining about fatigue in poxty October.
After the busy Xmas period it would be understandable but not after a dozen games.
It they are actually knackered already, if that is possible for a professional player in October, then serious questions have got to be directed towards the holy one Whitney.
Obviously something is wrong behind the scenes if players are knackered in October after the equivalent of a 5 week holiday in the summer and only 12 games in a season containing over at least 50 games.


Not necessarily.

It's perfectly possible to be knackered for a game in October but to be back to full fitness a couple of weeks later. Loads of players are rested in the Prem in such a manner. This is the bane of my Fantasy Prem team. :( :(


Then why is the only other mention of "fatigue" we have heard of this season is from Glenn Hoddle during the England shite and that reference was that "Rashford is showing NO signs of fatigue and this is his 15th game already this season".

Yes Jose would've preferred Rashford to only play a bit part, which is understandable considering Premier League, League Cup, Champions League, but no mention of him being knackered.
And I don't buy into the claim of better facilities at Utd, and such. These are professionals in their chosen trade who are experienced at our level so know exactly what to expect (unless Whitney's training techniques are completely different to all other clubs at our level).

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:46 pm

swampysaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:There will be a residual effect over a prolonged period, which is why athletes tend to tire over a full season of whatever it is they are doing.
If that is the case why do we not have the likes of McCall, Hurst, Hill, Jackett and the likes preaching the same ?
Their teams have played the same amount of games as our little snowflakes !


Probably because it's bloody obvious. But that refers to the end of the season, so I assume you're talking about having a string of games at this point.

I think Nombre covered that in his graph. Fair's fair, it's all in there. I suppose it's up to the manager to highlight that, but the wailing about it has been extreme and a little counter-productive if I may say so for the WhitneyOUTs.


I don't see any other managers in any of the four divisions (or even non-league for that matter) complaining about fatigue in poxty October.
After the busy Xmas period it would be understandable but not after a dozen games.
It they are actually knackered already, if that is possible for a professional player in October, then serious questions have got to be directed towards the holy one Whitney.
Obviously something is wrong behind the scenes if players are knackered in October after the equivalent of a 5 week holiday in the summer and only 12 games in a season containing over at least 50 games.


Not necessarily.

It's perfectly possible to be knackered for a game in October but to be back to full fitness a couple of weeks later. Loads of players are rested in the Prem in such a manner. This is the bane of my Fantasy Prem team. :( :(


Then why is the only other mention of "fatigue" we have heard of this season is from Glenn Hoddle during the England shite and that reference was that "Rashford is showing NO signs of fatigue and this is his 15th game already this season".

Yes Jose would've preferred Rashford to only play a bit part, which is understandable considering Premier League, League Cup, Champions League, but no mention of him being knackered.
And I don't buy into the claim of better facilities at Utd, and such. These are professionals in their chosen trade who are experienced at our level so know exactly what to expect (unless Whitney's training techniques are completely different to all other clubs at our level).


That's great for Rashford, well from what Hoddle observes. Taking the observed fitness of a 21 year old in one of the best teams in the top flight of English football, then extrapolating this onto players in a different situation is somewhat ambitious though. And that's accepting that the training and backroom support at Manchester United and Walsall will be comparable: which they won't be. There are numerous other factors, age being just one.

Hang on ... These are the minutes he's played in his league games - 79, 74, 23, 71, 60, 90, 78. Cups 18, 64, 13, ... etc I did also notice the headline 'Man Utd's strength in depth shines through'. I don't think you could have selected a poorer example. :|

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:11 pm

Out of them 10 League games you have stated he played for over an hour in 7 of those, but this isn't about Premier League luvvies and he was only used as an example due to "fatigue" being mentioned.
Given facility's are for sure better at Old Trafford but that still doesn't answer the question as to why accustomed League 1/2 players are struggling with "fatigue" in mid October when the season only began in August. As previously stated clubs like Rochdale, Scunthorpe, Southend and so on are not complaining of "fatigue" and they are on a par with our level.
So that suggests things are done differently behind closed doors at the Bonk's otherwise mentioned clubs would be complaining also.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:36 am

Take into account travelling ( Champions league and England ) , England meets and training , playing at a higher level? , media and fan pressure.

I think it's it's a great example Saigon?

It just illustrates further how pathetic Jons comments are .

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:59 am

Mazza01 wrote:Take into account travelling ( Champions league and England ) , England meets and training , playing at a higher level? , media and fan pressure.

I think it's it's a great example Saigon?

It just illustrates further how pathetic Jons comments are .


It's an appalling example. The entire premise was that - hey look, someone's played 15 games and doesn't look tired.

The reality is somewhat different ...

PS - fan pressure? :| What happened to - I work 60 hours a week and these snowflakes can't handle 90 minutes.
'fan pressure', oh right, say no more, that damn fan pressure is a killer.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:09 am

scott_powell wrote:"After that game I was surprised to hear Whitney say his team was tired. It’s a bit early in the season to be tired and that’s not the type of thing fans want to hear."

But hey, El_Nombre knows more than Chris Marsh and 99% of Walsall fans. "ITS GOT SOD ALL TO DO WITH THE TIME OF YEAR" apparently :roll: :lol:


Thought this thread was making you tired? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Antonio Conte, Glenn Hoddle and probably a few others disagree, just like we do. If you are going to bang on about how tired you are of the conversation maybe we should just leave it there and agree to disagree.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:10 am

swampysaddler wrote:
scott_powell wrote:"After that game I was surprised to hear Whitney say his team was tired. It’s a bit early in the season to be tired and that’s not the type of thing fans want to hear."

But hey, El_Nombre knows more than Chris Marsh and 99% of Walsall fans. "ITS GOT SOD ALL TO DO WITH THE TIME OF YEAR" apparently :roll: :lol:



Like I said earlier in the thread maybe the players are in the wrong profession.
Maybe they should take up something less taxing like a hard days work in a factory.


As I have explained to you, at length, with no reply, that's not a fair comparison at all.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:11 am

tinned wrote:Come on lads, give El_Nombre a break.

Some of our players will have played 12 (that's twelve) games since early August. Some of the players they will have played against might have only played 10 or 11 games. That's a BIG difference when you're a fully trained, ultra-fit 23 year old.


How about when you are Adam Chambers and had to be rested against a top of the table local rival because of strains? But you can't be tired in October!

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:19 am

swampysaddler wrote:Out of them 10 League games you have stated he played for over an hour in 7 of those, but this isn't about Premier League luvvies and he was only used as an example due to "fatigue" being mentioned.
Given facility's are for sure better at Old Trafford but that still doesn't answer the question as to why accustomed League 1/2 players are struggling with "fatigue" in mid October when the season only began in August. As previously stated clubs like Rochdale, Scunthorpe, Southend and so on are not complaining of "fatigue" and they are on a par with our level.
So that suggests things are done differently behind closed doors at the Bonk's otherwise mentioned clubs would be complaining also.


Oh so it's a big ask to play over an hour in 7 games since the start of the season but it's not a big ask to play in every game during a 9 game spell in the space of a month? Like Guthrie for example?

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:23 am

Mazza01 wrote:Take into account travelling ( Champions league and England ) , England meets and training , playing at a higher level? , media and fan pressure.

I think it's it's a great example Saigon?

It just illustrates further how pathetic Jons comments are .


Do you? How about the fact that Hoddle expected to see fatigue and was surprised he didn't (despite the fact it's physically impossible to be tired in October apparently)? I mean you've been given the minutes above, he's barely played a full ninety in that time. I wonder if that's got something to do with warding against fatigue? Or that that week long fitness camp he did at the start of the season did actually pay dividends?

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 am

Yet you dismiss Chris Marsh's comments.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:07 am

scott_powell wrote:Yet you dismiss Chris Marsh's comments.


No I didn't I just pointed out people disagree just like we are. He's just as entitled to his opinion as I am and the names I gave that back up my point. I think he's wrong but that's life. I can accept that others will have a different opinion, what I can't accept is nonsense sensationalised reasons, like factory work being "tougher" or there being no circumstance where you can possibly be tired in October.

I actually agree with the bit where he says it's not what the fans want to hear. Clearly not, look at your reactions.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:31 am

I see in todays e&s

Walsall must stop conceding sloppy goals if they are going to start turning draws into wins, boss Jon Whitney has declared.
In a bid to to tighten up at the back, Whitney’s men have spent extra time on the training ground this week – with the boss holding a double session on Tuesday.

Looks like we might be a bit leggy Saturday then !!! :wink: :wink: :wink:

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:33 am

So to summarise:

Whitney using fatigue as a dodge excuse to deflect from other factors.
Chris Marsh is a Sport fitness and fatigue scientist
Rashford does not get tired, must eat his greens and go to bed at a reasonable time with a cup of cocco then.
Something vague about working in factories and how this equates to professional sport
Lake District summer camps
Scott is tired from reading words...best eat his greens and go to bed early.
Hoddle is still worried about Sinners.


Excellent stuff.

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Re: Signs of fatigue WHAT !!!!!!

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:36 am

derbysaddler wrote:So to summarise:

Whitney using fatigue as a dodge excuse to deflect from other factors.
Chris Marsh is a Sport fitness and fatigue scientist
Rashford does not get tired, must eat his greens and go to bed at a reasonable time with a cup of cocco then.
Something vague about working in factories and how this equates to professional sport
Lake District summer camps
Scott is tired from reading words...best eat his greens and go to bed early.
Hoddle is still worried about Sinners.


Excellent stuff.


Excellent summary.

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