Us vs them

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PT
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Re: Us vs them

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:57 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
PT wrote:That's a fair response Saigon. The fast majority of Walsall fans who attend games aren't active on Social media. There are around 250 of us who are and by definition we are the outwardly opinionated minority so will tend to hold views at the extremes. Extremes that often aren't reflected in the matchday population.

Given that we are a minority, it is right that the club shouldn't over indulge the "mood on social media" because it is often hysterical and as you say, overly sensitive nonsense.If we keep winning and Whitney wants to do a lap of v flicking and raspberry blowing then I for one wouldn't begrudge him at all. It's about Walsall winning not my delicate sensitivity to how the manager reacts to those wins.

The bit where I do feel my view is broadly or indeed modestly representative is born out by the amount of paying punters who are rocking up to Bescot these days. The cloak of secrecy around Walsall FC means that I can't state this as fact, but I believe that around 1,000 of our season ticket holders are free kids (either completely free or on the £3 return each game). If you knock 1,000 or even 500 from our crowds then we are in early 80's and early 90's territory. Virtually unique in professional football in that regard. So those "silent masses" are speaking. They're just choosing not to do it by skwarking in cyberspace. Given that the Bonser effect has been there for 27 years there is a demonstrable and measurable "Whitney effect" and it isn't a good one.


Ah I'm not really sure about that PT. Have a look at the average attendances from before Whitney's time and they really aren't all that different. Average attendance this year is 4566 according to World Football Net (the first thing that popped up when I Googled. To put that into prospective attendances before this season were:

2017 5072
2016 5382
2015 4392
2014 4807
2013 4234
2012 4274
2011 3846
2010 4572

So bar a spike in what now looks a bit of an anomaly of a season, they've stayed roughly the same and remain so. To say there is a downturn in attendances under Whitney and it's demonstrably worse than other season isn't really fair. There's one reason the ground is half empty every week and it's not "the John Whitney effect". Walsall fans are more loyal than that. I think it has everything to do with how the club is run higher than him.


I was careful to state "paying punters" because of the 1,000 or so free kids. I think we started that in 14/15.

The recent Fleetwood game will have had around 2,500 people who paid to attend. I think that thanks to more away fans tomorrow there will be more but still less than 3,000.

The suggestion you and Saigon make about these poor attendances being partly driven by the way the club is run will have some merit but it always gains more prominence when the team is performing poorly. The club is ran in exactly the same way as it was when we went to Cardiff, Wembley and to the Championship.

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chunkster
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Re: Us vs them

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:30 pm

Have i logged onto the correct site??? there seems to be coherent sensible discussions going on ? until this post of course :mrgreen:

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Neuromantic
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Re: Us vs them

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:23 pm

Agree with what PT says.

It’s more of a case of death by 10,000 paper cuts. Whitney has engendered this negativity and inference of arrogance given the amount of ridiculous comments he’s made over the past 18 months.

The suggestion that those in the ‘football circle’ can only know what’s going on and have a valid opinion at the club is patronising.

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Re: Us vs them

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:27 pm

Wasn't Whitney getting a lot of stick this time last year? The flukey win at Sheffield United papered over some poor form at that time. I was at Fleetwood when things were getting pretty hostile, shots at goal sarcastically cheered, Toner getting dogs abuse and not being seen again.

Just to counter the PT years grace comment although he as ever makes good observations of other areas of Whitney's tenure.

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PT
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Re: Us vs them

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:21 pm

SoccerHQ wrote:Wasn't Whitney getting a lot of stick this time last year? The flukey win at Sheffield United papered over some poor form at that time. I was at Fleetwood when things were getting pretty hostile, shots at goal sarcastically cheered, Toner getting dogs abuse and not being seen again.

Just to counter the PT years grace comment although he as ever makes good observations of other areas of Whitney's tenure.


In my mind there was reaction to bad performances such as the no-show at Fleetwood you mention, same at Northampton and the abomination at Rochdale. But they were more reactive sentiments as games unfolded rather than people having an anti-Whitney stance that they took with them to the game. I don't feel that really existed until the MK Dons game on the final day of the season - an unmitigated disaster of a game that was of course all Jimmy Oconnor's fault. :wink:

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Re: Us vs them

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:11 pm

Only just listened to the interview and in general I agree with a few others who’ve said he really didn’t say that much that surprised me apart from the point about being in L1 for so long being an achievement! That must be the most obvious sign of the total and utter lack of ambition at our club (top down negativity...)

It’s shameful that the management somehow believe this is something the fans will find acceptable - surely even they as employees (manager and players) have to want better than third division football....

He says we are maybe punching above our weight - so is therefore effectively creating and cultivating an atmosphere that bog standard average is good enough and anything better is a bonus... what a load of crap that is....

I’m sick of how WFC is being run and the sooner someone can wrestle it from you know who the better - the obvious fear is that won’t be any time soon.... :roll: UTS

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Re: Us vs them

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:36 am

Clearly 11 years at the same level is not an achievement but on our gates things could have been a lot worse! I remember the 18 years at this level between 1961 and 1979. They were very similar....some good spells and some bad spells although the general mediocrity was lifted in those years by some really good Cup results. I think that this is our natural level but that does not mean we shouldn't strive to go higher and if Dean had stayed we would have got promotion in 2015/2016. I don't know anyone who wouldn't like us to have another go at the Championship either in the Club or in the fanbase. I agree that at this moment that looks some way off but the great thing about football is that things can change very quickly. Who would have thought Graydon would get us promotion in his first year? Who would have thought we would have come so close under Smith after the previous 4 seasons?
All we can do at the moment is hope that the recent upturn in performances can be translated into results on the pitch!!

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Re: Us vs them

Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:56 pm

Is Jon allowed a weekend off now?

Top half ffs. :lol:

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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Us vs them

Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:18 pm

SoccerHQ wrote:Is Jon allowed a weekend off now?

Top half ffs. :lol:


Of course not!

They'll be something wrong with his celebrations again. LOL :roll: :lol:

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Re: Us vs them

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:59 pm

El_Nombre wrote:I don't know who us or them are, but I'm with the 11 lads who are on the pitch every Saturday. That's us to me.

A nail on the head comment. Spot on.

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saddla
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Re: Us vs them

Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:31 pm

I didn't hear a single Whitney out chant today. Perhaps the anti Jon brigade stayed away to protest, resulting in a lower gate but a much more healthy atmosphere. Long may it continue.

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Re: Us vs them

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:10 pm

There was nobody there to create an atmosphere.

Season tickets are already counted whether they attend or not. Lots didn’t around me.

Well under 3 k in there today.

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saddla
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Re: Us vs them

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:30 pm

m&m wrote:There was nobody there to create an atmosphere.

Season tickets are already counted whether they attend or not. Lots didn’t around me.

Well under 3 k in there today.


Anyone who stayed away today missed a great performance from the lads. i'd rather sit in absolute silence than listen to morons slagging of players and the manager.

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:51 am

Credit where credit is due, 3 league wins on the bounce is not to be sniffed at. With 2 very winnable away games coming up we could be just 1 or 2 places outside the play offs.

If we can keep this run going then what happens in January will determine whether we are happy to stay mid table or actually try and make a play off push, good to read that talks regarding the loans players have commenced.

If the £280k for Tyler is true then with Bonser being the shrewd business man he is then surely he can see that that would be a drop in the ocean to what he could potentially be worth.
Last edited by IHTC. on Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:58 am

saddla wrote:
m&m wrote:There was nobody there to create an atmosphere.

Season tickets are already counted whether they attend or not. Lots didn’t around me.

Well under 3 k in there today.


Anyone who stayed away today missed a great performance from the lads. i'd rather sit in absolute silence than listen to morons slagging of players and the manager.



I agree.

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PT
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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:01 am

IHTC. wrote:Credit where credit is due, 3 league wins on the bounce is not to be sniffed at. With 2 very winnable away games coming up we could be just 1 or 2 places outside the play offs.

If we can keep this run going then what happens in January will determine whether we are happy to stay mid table or actually try and make a play off push, good to read that talks regarding the loans players have commenced.

If the £280k for Tyler is true then with Bonser bring the shrewd business man he is surely he can see that that would be a drop in the ocean to what he could potentially be worth.


If the rumours up here about Deeney coming to Everton for £12m in January are true, then this would be an extremely wise way to spend some of that windfal (£2m ish).

I still don't think we've got a cat in hell's chance of threatening the play-offs but it is nice to be glancing upwards rather than downwards this weekend.

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:10 am

IHTC. wrote:Credit where credit is due, 3 league wins on the bounce is not to be sniffed at. With 2 very winnable away games coming up we could be just 1 or 2 places outside the play offs.

If we can keep this run going then what happens in January will determine whether we are happy to stay mid table or actually try and make a play off push, good to read that talks regarding the loans players have commenced.

If the £280k for Tyler is true then with Bonser bring the shrewd business man he is surely he can see that that would be a drop in the ocean to what he could potentially be worth.


Where did you hear this, IHTC?

I'm a bit shocked at the very idea :wink:

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:24 am

Delighted to see the result yesterday - I was unable to use my ST for the first time this season as I had to rescue my younger daughter from the frozen north before winter came (to quote the show).

It sounded like an excellent performance against the 3rd placed team in the league (opinion seemed to be that they are cack, but it takes two teams to make one look that bad generally).

Fantastic that the run of games since Gillingham has pulled us clear of the bottom four as I genuinely feared that this was where we were heading. And, given that Bonser would clearly be fine with mid-table mediocrity, I'd imagine that Whitney is safe in his job for the season now. However, I'm not planning on renewing my ST next year for only the second time in the last 25 years. While I don't plan to be calling for Whitney's head again when his decisions turn tits up during a game (pointless given the attitude of our owner), the fact still remains that I think he is a piss poor manager who delivers cack football to watch with mediocre results.

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:49 am

BathSaddler wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Credit where credit is due, 3 league wins on the bounce is not to be sniffed at. With 2 very winnable away games coming up we could be just 1 or 2 places outside the play offs.

If we can keep this run going then what happens in January will determine whether we are happy to stay mid table or actually try and make a play off push, good to read that talks regarding the loans players have commenced.

If the £280k for Tyler is true then with Bonser bring the shrewd business man he is surely he can see that that would be a drop in the ocean to what he could potentially be worth.


Where did you hear this, IHTC?

I'm a bit shocked at the very idea :wink:


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror ... n-11632523

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chunkster
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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:02 am

BathSaddler wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Credit where credit is due, 3 league wins on the bounce is not to be sniffed at. With 2 very winnable away games coming up we could be just 1 or 2 places outside the play offs.

If we can keep this run going then what happens in January will determine whether we are happy to stay mid table or actually try and make a play off push, good to read that talks regarding the loans players have commenced.

If the £280k for Tyler is true then with Bonser bring the shrewd business man he is surely he can see that that would be a drop in the ocean to what he could potentially be worth.


Where did you hear this, IHTC?

I'm a bit shocked at the very idea :wink:
Just googled it, it was in the sun, that would be the compensation package that Marseille would have to pay west brom.

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:05 am

IHTC. wrote:
BathSaddler wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Credit where credit is due, 3 league wins on the bounce is not to be sniffed at. With 2 very winnable away games coming up we could be just 1 or 2 places outside the play offs.

If we can keep this run going then what happens in January will determine whether we are happy to stay mid table or actually try and make a play off push, good to read that talks regarding the loans players have commenced.

If the £280k for Tyler is true then with Bonser bring the shrewd business man he is surely he can see that that would be a drop in the ocean to what he could potentially be worth.


Where did you hear this, IHTC?

I'm a bit shocked at the very idea :wink:


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror ... n-11632523


Thanks, IHTC. Back to reality with a bang after reading that...

SoccerHQ
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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:20 am

Roberts is getting linked to premier league and championship clubs.

He isn't coming here full time. It will be a stretch to even extend his loan to end of the season I think.

Deeney will never leave Watford. He might but it will probably be a case of him in his 30s and he joins his boyhood idols Birmingham City on a free transfer when they're in the National league. :roll: :wink:

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IHTC.
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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:00 pm

BathSaddler wrote:
IHTC. wrote:
BathSaddler wrote:
IHTC. wrote:Credit where credit is due, 3 league wins on the bounce is not to be sniffed at. With 2 very winnable away games coming up we could be just 1 or 2 places outside the play offs.

If we can keep this run going then what happens in January will determine whether we are happy to stay mid table or actually try and make a play off push, good to read that talks regarding the loans players have commenced.

If the £280k for Tyler is true then with Bonser bring the shrewd business man he is surely he can see that that would be a drop in the ocean to what he could potentially be worth.


Where did you hear this, IHTC?

I'm a bit shocked at the very idea :wink:


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror ... n-11632523


Thanks, IHTC. Back to reality with a bang after reading that...


Just because Marseille and Championship sides was mentioned it does not necessarily mean it is true just like when I said 'if the £280k was true'

Offer him the contract Bradshaw or Sawyers was offered and just pray, it is almost a given he will go on to have a successful career

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:52 pm

absolutely zero chance of us signing Tyler Roberts , lets put that to bed now.

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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:29 pm

Maverick wrote:
saddla wrote:
m&m wrote:There was nobody there to create an atmosphere.

Season tickets are already counted whether they attend or not. Lots didn’t around me.

Well under 3 k in there today.


Anyone who stayed away today missed a great performance from the lads. i'd rather sit in absolute silence than listen to morons slagging of players and the manager.



I agree.



Yep I agree glad they have decided not to come better without them

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IHTC.
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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Mazza01 wrote:absolutely zero chance of us signing Tyler Roberts , lets put that to bed now.


I tend to agree but if you do not buy a ticket you cannot win the prize.

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Exile
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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:20 pm

IHTC. wrote:
Mazza01 wrote:absolutely zero chance of us signing Tyler Roberts , lets put that to bed now.


I tend to agree but if you do not buy a ticket you cannot win the prize.

The winning ticket was bought years ago, and the winner elected to be paid in instalments, for ever. :wink:

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boringteacher
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Re: Us vs them

Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:56 pm

Exile wrote:
IHTC. wrote:
Mazza01 wrote:absolutely zero chance of us signing Tyler Roberts , lets put that to bed now.


I tend to agree but if you do not buy a ticket you cannot win the prize.

The winning ticket was bought years ago, and the winner elected to be paid in instalments, for ever. :wink:

One day, even Bonser will be gone and a new king will reign

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB2FfXL2GHo

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