Dicky's gone

This section of the board is an archive of topics from Walsall's recent history - e.g. Ray Graydon's sacking, the arrival and subsequent departure of Paul Merson. It also houses the tributes paid to Jolysaddler.
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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:22 pm

I'm gutted bonsor has done it again drove a good manager out the only good thing that its happened now and not christmas. While he is in charge we will be having this conversation every 2 years. dickie made the man a million pound in his pension fund. ther new manager must work with no money sell the best players when a offer comes in and sign paul taylor lousy cheap signings. who is man enough to do that

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:27 pm

Heard the news as it broke - was very dissappointed but not surprised.

Logged on tonight to read the reaction and for the first time ever, after a couple of pages, simply couldn't be bothered. What utter crap some our fans talk.

I personally think we are now entering a lottery and may get lucky with a new guy, but I would be less surprised if we see a couple of years of slump, maybe even relegation. How long such a slump could last - anyone's guess. I really hope we take a chance on Kelly or Clough but reality will be less exciting no doubt.

My only (rhetorical) questions are:

1) Why when anyone wants to protest against Bonser does the same few come up with the "the only way would be to put a viable business alternative to JB..." bullsh t? Do teams who hate their chairmen/owners etc all march up and say "Oi Sir, please read this viable business alternative". No, they gather in thousands and chant [owner/chairman's name] OUT!. It may be less subtle but at least it gets the message across. Bonser wouldn't listen to either form of protest but he should see how many of us feel about the way this season has been sabotaged.

2) How will the "Richard Money Hurt My Feelings" brigade feel if we get the next appointment wrong and we go backwards fast? Lets hope JB gets you to help with the interviews so you can make sure we don't pick anyone too nasty.

geoff skillet wrote:i'm not disappointed to see Richard Money leave our club though. we want someone who can get the players organised etc. but we also need him to have a bit of respect. unfortunately he has failed in that & I am glad to see the back of him.


and have some respect Geoff, good grief!!!!! Isn't this game a little too rough for you?


Best of luck RM. You have probably done the right thing and got out now, rather than waste any more time on us. JB has no interest in WFC and as a resut he will get what he deserves. And the fans (on the whole) will be the losers - AGAIN!

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:30 pm

When I first found out i was horrified. Probably one of the best managers we have had but i have to say his tactics were off the mark. Discipline- 100% Teamwork-100% (mostly) but the tactics of the long balls towards deeney mooney and holmes never worked. Kinsella as a manager wouldnt be too bad in my opinion. Personally prefer Martin O'Connor to do a Roberto Martinez.

Bonser needs to leave im afraid. Pockets too much and leaves us with the scraps of 4 or 5 rubbish loanees.

I can sense some sort of uproar of Huddersfield now.

Last thing, Board please begin to match the fans ambition of reaching the championship and i wouldnt be surprised if money went to somewhere like Wolves but definetly a Championship Side.

Come On Saddlers!

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bangsection
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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:52 pm

I honestly don't think it will be a "difficult" exit for Bonser if and when he hands the reins over to Gilman/AN Other Pension Fund Manager. It's just business. Walsall has always been 'just business'.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:04 pm

nottmsaddler wrote:Heard the news as it broke - was very dissappointed but not surprised.

Logged on tonight to read the reaction and for the first time ever, after a couple of pages, simply couldn't be bothered. What utter crud some our fans talk.

I personally think we are now entering a lottery and may get lucky with a new guy, but I would be less surprised if we see a couple of years of slump, maybe even relegation. How long such a slump could last - anyone's guess. I really hope we take a chance on Kelly or Clough but reality will be less exciting no doubt.

My only (rhetorical) questions are:

1) Why when anyone wants to protest against Bonser does the same few come up with the "the only way would be to put a viable business alternative to JB..." bullsh t? Do teams who hate their chairmen/owners etc all march up and say "Oi Sir, please read this viable business alternative". No, they gather in thousands and chant [owner/chairman's name] OUT!. It may be less subtle but at least it gets the message across. Bonser wouldn't listen to either form of protest but he should see how many of us feel about the way this season has been sabotaged.

2) How will the "Richard Money Hurt My Feelings" brigade feel if we get the next appointment wrong and we go backwards fast? Lets hope JB gets you to help with the interviews so you can make sure we don't pick anyone too nasty.

geoff skillet wrote:i'm not disappointed to see Richard Money leave our club though. we want someone who can get the players organised etc. but we also need him to have a bit of respect. unfortunately he has failed in that & I am glad to see the back of him.


and have some respect Geoff, good grief!!!!! Isn't this game a little too rough for you?


Best of luck RM. You have probably done the right thing and got out now, rather than waste any more time on us. JB has no interest in WFC and as a resut he will get what he deserves. And the fans (on the whole) will be the losers - AGAIN!



Finally someone talks some sense.

Great loss for the club RM going, but we have been here before and will probably revisit it again.

All we can do is keep supporting the lads.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:13 pm

It really is quite funny when you start digging around how many dots you can find to join up, like old friends at a reunion.

Thorpre Park Business Park, GMI's biggest development saw a 51 % purchase (hmmm just enough) from guess who...former landowners Severn Trent Water!! In conjunction with Scarborough Development Group, whose chairman (at the time) was also chairman of Sheffield United, who also used GMI construction for one of their new stands.

Goodness me, arn't the boys just all together.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:17 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:It really is quite funny when you start digging around how many dots you can find to join up, like old friends at a reunion.

Thorpre Park Business Park, GMI's biggest development saw a 51 % purchase (hmmm just enough) from guess who...former landowners Severn Trent Water!! In conjunction with Scarborough Development Group, whose chairman (at the time) was also chairman of Sheffield United, who also used GMI construction for one of their new stands.

Goodness me, arn't the boys just all together.

Keep going - you're getting there. :wink:

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:25 pm

stafflers wrote:
ShropsSaddler wrote:We need to know both sides of this story before we can PROPERLY and RATIONALLY comment.


I agree.

It's also interesting that a number of posters were demanding that Richard Money left a few weeks ago. If I recall correctly thread was called "eff off money" or something like that.

Now those very same people have exactly what they want and are demanding that Jeff Bonser "effs off" because they have what they called for a few weeks ago.

Some posts on here are pathetic.


Yes Stafflers, some posts on here are pathetic, so why do you keep posting?

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:36 pm

I don't think I want to know any more!!

I only popped down one day to watch a bit of footy, some team called Walsall versus Bury, little short bloke called Buckley, a big fat scary thing called Bernie Wright, and messers Athey and Denehey crossing the ball side-to side over a billiard table surface like tennis players warming up.

Somehow I ended up embroiled with Ken Wheldon, Jack Harris, and Terry Ramsden, and now they're starting to look like the Teletubbies.

I think Its time I took up decorating.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:45 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:I think Its time I took up decorating.

No good - you'd be useless at papering over the cracks. :lol:

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Geordiesaddler
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Re: Dicky's gone

Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:55 pm

Oh well I suppose I could just retire to Cyprus.

No money, no property, just a beat up Sony Walkman, The Membranes greatest hits, and a singular mission to be Ben Gunn On JB's Treasure Island.

"Got any cheese today Jeffrey?"

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:44 am

Geordiesaddler wrote:It really is quite funny when you start digging around how many dots you can find to join up, like old friends at a reunion.

Thorpre Park Business Park, GMI's biggest development saw a 51 % purchase (hmmm just enough) from guess who...former landowners Severn Trent Water!! In conjunction with Scarborough Development Group, whose chairman (at the time) was also chairman of Sheffield United, who also used GMI construction for one of their new stands.

Goodness me, arn't the boys just all together.


I must say, his appointment worries me - I searched my credit reference software yesterday on Walsall to find out the list of Directors. This guy has a list which is about double that posted above. You are not telling me he is here for the long term... worrying.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:39 am

Nortoncanesred wrote:
and suddenly you have a loss-making business (still loss making as the plan is to spend the rent money on the pitch) with a piece of prime real estate]


The last two sets of published accounts show a profit, it is not a loss making business.

Mr Gilman is a very busy man,

GMI PROPERTY COMPANY LIMITED 06396529 Director Company's age is less than 18 months 11/10/2007
GMI 4650 / 4750 LIMITED 06042910 Director Company's age is less than 18 months 16/02/2007
GMI ROVINIAN (E) LIMITED 05916729 Director Active 25/08/2006
GMI SHAW LANE LIMITED 05881110 Director Active 05/10/2006
GMI PROJECT MANAGEMENT LIMITED 05759259 Director Active 23/05/2006
GMI (WALSALL) LIMITED 05388444 Director Active 16/03/2005
GMI CONSTRUCTION HOLDINGS PLC 05300988 Director Active 30/11/2004
WHARFEDALE NURSERIES MANAGEMENT COMPANY LIMITED 05281686 Director Non trading 19/04/2007
GMI LAKESIDE DONCASTER LIMITED 05233346 Director Active 03/11/2004
GMI WATERSIDE SHIPLEY LIMITED 05122399 Director Active 03/11/2004
GMI HOMES LIMITED 05115152 Director Company is dissolved 28/04/2004
GMI INVESTMENTS (2180) LIMITED 05025157 Director Active 28/01/2004
SHEFFIELD DIGITAL CAMPUS LIMITED 05000077 Director Active 21/12/2006
GMI THORPE PARK LIMITED 04934672 Director Active 24/11/2003
GMI PROPERTY HOLDINGS LIMITED 04827764 Director Analysed - Query raised 14/11/2003
EAST LEEDS DEVELOPMENT COMPANY LIMITED 04485243 Director Active 28/03/2003
ELDC (TRIANGLE) LIMITED 04485241 Director Active 22/10/2002
GMI SPRINGHILL (A) LIMITED 04348609 Director Company is dissolved 10/05/2002
GMI SPRINGHILL (B) LIMITED 04348606 Director Company is dissolved 10/05/2002
GMI SPRINGHILL LIMITED 04339321 Director Company is dissolved 07/03/2002
GMI LEGER LIMITED 04339026 Director Company is dissolved 29/01/2002
GMI LEGER (B) LIMITED 04338981 Director Company is dissolved 29/01/2002
GMI LEGER (C) LIMITED 04338977 Director Company is dissolved 29/01/2002
GMI LEGER (A) LIMITED 04338963 Director Company is dissolved 29/01/2002
LEWCOMBE PROPERTIES (GILDERSOME) LIMITED 04330672 Director Active 14/01/2002
INTERCHANGE ONE LIMITED 04280596 Director Company is dissolved 11/10/2001
GMI DEVELOPMENTS LIMITED 04141437 Director Active 02/03/2001
KEYLANDMARK LIMITED 04087948 Director Active 22/12/2000
TURNBERRY PARK LIMITED 04070865 Director Active 22/12/2000
AILSA HOUSE LIMITED 03898881 Director Non trading 15/01/2002
HALTON GILL CONSULTING LIMITED 03814671 Director Company is dissolved 15/09/1999
DPL (KEIGHLEY) LIMITED 03503308 Director Company is dissolved 25/02/1998
GMI HOLDINGS LIMITED 03364585 Director Active 21/05/1997
GMI LANDMARK MANAGEMENT LIMITED 03357608 Director Active 21/05/1997
LEWCOMBE PROPERTIES (LEEDS) LIMITED 03336226 Director Company is dissolved 12/05/1997
PARKSIDE SECURITIES LIMITED 03258657 Director Active 23/10/1996
EAST LEEDS DEVELOPMENTS (WHINMOOR) LIMITED 02965546 Director Company is dissolved 06/10/1994
EAST LEEDS DEVELOPMENTS (ROYDS GREEN) LIMITED 02965545 Director Company is dissolved 06/10/1994
MIDDLETON HOUSE PROPERTIES LIMITED 02894215 Director Company is dissolved 23/03/1994
SCHOLES DEVELOPMENT COMPANY LIMITED 02859718
LEWCOMBE PROPERTIES LIMITED 02736223 Director Active 11/09/1992
GMI ROVINIAN LIMITED 02346183 Director Active 22/02/1993
ANCAMAIN LIMITED 02079751 Director Active 10/05/1991
GMI CONSTRUCTION GROUP PLC 01988606 Director Active 20/02/1991
GMI INVESTMENTS LIMITED 01917144 Director Active 14/01/1992
GMI CONSTRUCTION LIMITED 01759399 Director Non trading 17/02/1992
GMI PM RESIDUAL LIMITED 01238375 Director In Liquidation 10/05/1991
WALSALL FOOTBALL CLUB,LIMITED(THE) 00171970 Director Active 14/08/2006


Suddenly one half of the 'April Fool' comes true!

Does anyone know if there is any free land in Essington?

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:17 am

Whitti Steve wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:It really is quite funny when you start digging around how many dots you can find to join up, like old friends at a reunion.

Thorpre Park Business Park, GMI's biggest development saw a 51 % purchase (hmmm just enough) from guess who...former landowners Severn Trent Water!! In conjunction with Scarborough Development Group, whose chairman (at the time) was also chairman of Sheffield United, who also used GMI construction for one of their new stands.

Goodness me, arn't the boys just all together.


I must say, his appointment worries me - I searched my credit reference software yesterday on Walsall to find out the list of Directors. This guy has a list which is about double that posted above. You are not telling me he is here for the long term... worrying.



Those are just the 48 current ones, there are loads more.

Whatever Mr Bonser is up to he probably has it all mapped out.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:39 am

Nortoncanesred wrote:
and suddenly you have a loss-making business (still loss making as the plan is to spend the rent money on the pitch) with a piece of prime real estate]


The last two sets of published accounts show a profit, it is not a loss making business.


Two? I thought that it was only one? In any case they were tiny profits compared to turnover and the previous several years we made much bigger losses. We'll make a big profit this year on the back of players sales, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us report an operating loss (ie excluding fees received for selling assets: players) again for the 2007/8 financial year.

Have we made an net profit or a net loss over the course of JB's time as chairman?

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:49 am

Annual Accounts 06/06-05/07 Change (%) 06/05-05/06 Change (%) 06/04-05/05
Paid up equity 50,000 - 50,000 - 50,000
P&L Account Reserve -1,613,000 0.6 % -1,622,000 4.1 % -1,691,000
Sundry Reserves 4,113,000 - 4,113,000 - 4,113,000
Revaluation Reserve - - - - -
Shareholder Funds 2,550,000 0.4 % 2,541,000 2.8 % 2,472,000
Net Worth 2,547,000 0.4 % 2,538,000 2.7 % 2,472,000


The P&L account is 1.6 million pounds in defecit.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:56 am

Plastic Hawk wrote:Have we made an net profit or a net loss over the course of JB's time as chairman?

I think that was a rhetorical question, but it is worth looking at the answer. Since WFC nows owes a lot more, even allowing for inflation and the sale of Dann and Fox, than it did when Bonser took over , and it has never - as far as I know - paid a dividend to its shareholders, then its total net losses must be greater than its net profits.

Of course WFC income has been spent on improving the facilities at Bescot/Bank's over the years, but since the freehold of the stadium belongs to Bonser and every improvement has therefore been followed by an inevitable rent rise, that has a negative side to it.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:01 am

Nortoncanesred wrote:
Annual Accounts 06/06-05/07 Change (%) 06/05-05/06 Change (%) 06/04-05/05
Paid up equity 50,000 - 50,000 - 50,000
P&L Account Reserve -1,613,000 0.6 % -1,622,000 4.1 % -1,691,000
Sundry Reserves 4,113,000 - 4,113,000 - 4,113,000
Revaluation Reserve - - - - -
Shareholder Funds 2,550,000 0.4 % 2,541,000 2.8 % 2,472,000
Net Worth 2,547,000 0.4 % 2,538,000 2.7 % 2,472,000


The P&L account is 1.6 million pounds in defecit.


Without knowing when it was at zero that doesn't necessarily say a lot. :wink:

All I'm saying is that I'd be surprised if (when we take player sales out of the equation) Walsall FC has made a net profit since JB took over. Given that, it makes it difficult to see why someone (other than a wealthy fan - and they seem to be in short supply) would want to take it over, without the ground rent to feather their nest with.

This is not to say that I think that Bonser is the best thing since sliced bread or that the club would go under without him - I don't. But it does mean that I expect the new owner (whoever he is and whenever he arrives) to be very much like the old owner (there is a chance he'll be much better, but similarly a risk he'll be much worse). So I don't see too much point in getting myself would up about JB.

Bernie - it was half a rhetorical question. I'm pretty sure the answer must be that we've made a loss, but I wasn't sure.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:15 am

Image

The heir apparent? Anyone know if he actually attends games? (Walsall v Leeds doesn't count.)

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Nortoncanesred
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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:26 am

The P&L was positive until the 03/04 accounts so all the current losses have been accrued since then under the leadership of Mr Bonser. At the end of the day if Mr Bonser had drawn £300,000 in wages every year instead of putting the freehold into his pension scheme the club could have had the freehold reunited and Mr Bonser would have had his money, but would have to had to pay tax on the earnings.
Any profit we make from the Dann/Fox sales will be tax free due to the accrued losses so presuming we have traded on an even footing the P&L should be back to around zero, just in time for pension fund maturity and sale.

Although the club is supposed to be for sale and their is no "wealthy fan" to take over we all know that it is not for sale on terms that anyone with a brain would want as Mr Bonser has never said the freehold is for sale or how much it would be to buy, it was all a front like the new chairman he fired.

You can check my post history I'm not one of the Bonser Out brigade, however I have now seen through the deceit and can finally see what is really going on. I'm not even sure if anything can actually be done as nobody can doubt that what he has done is legal and above board, however making millions of pounds out of lower division football club that has had a couple of chances to progress and has financially came up short is morally wrong and everyone should be aware of the facts as it directly impacts the playing side, as we have all seen in the last 4 months.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:55 am

Nortoncanesred wrote:The P&L was positive until the 03/04 accounts so all the current losses have been accrued since then under the leadership of Mr Bonser. At the end of the day if Mr Bonser had drawn £300,000 in wages every year instead of putting the freehold into his pension scheme the club could have had the freehold reunited and Mr Bonser would have had his money, but would have to had to pay tax on the earnings.
Any profit we make from the Dann/Fox sales will be tax free due to the accrued losses so presuming we have traded on an even footing the P&L should be back to around zero, just in time for pension fund maturity and sale.

Although the club is supposed to be for sale and their is no "wealthy fan" to take over we all know that it is not for sale on terms that anyone with a brain would want as Mr Bonser has never said the freehold is for sale or how much it would be to buy, it was all a front like the new chairman he fired.

You can check my post history I'm not one of the Bonser Out brigade, however I have now seen through the deceit and can finally see what is really going on. I'm not even sure if anything can actually be done as nobody can doubt that what he has done is legal and above board, however making millions of pounds out of lower division football club that has had a couple of chances to progress and has financially came up short is morally wrong and everyone should be aware of the facts as it directly impacts the playing side, as we have all seen in the last 4 months.


Very, very good post.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:29 pm

Heard the news late last night after returning from Holiday.

I m not surprised at all. DD did nt feel he could ever take the Club any further. The lofty heights of 4th place were achieved with a cheap and threadbare squad. Then argueably his 3 best Players departed - and that was it. I think the day Dann was sold will be a defining moment in the history of our Club. I ve never felt so sick and disappointed with the Saddlers.

Having said all of the above and have many times on this Forum, DD's record in the transfer market was rubbish overall. And with a major rebuilding job on the horizon for the Summer, we may (or may not) be in better hands with someone else. Who this will be I have no idea.

Thanks to DD for the memories and I hope he goes on to bigger and better things.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:09 pm


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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:12 pm



He's been in this morning to negotiate a pay-off and a "keep your trap shut" agreement with JB then I see!! :lol: :lol: :wink:

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:27 pm

'# Baggie Boy said: Apr 23rd, 2008 at 2:30 pm

As an outsider so to speak, this seems like total lack of ambition by the Walsall board'

Sums it up.
'

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:29 pm

mmmmm, there's a lot of talk about P&L accounts. In my experience most businesses have 2. On for the tax mans eyes and one that isn't!!

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:24 pm



Mmmm, must be true then :roll:

Why do the words "golden" and "handshake" spring to mind?

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:07 pm

Plastic Hawk wrote:


He's been in this morning to negotiate a pay-off and a "keep your trap shut" agreement with JB then I see!! :lol: :lol: :wink:


Yup! :evil:

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:42 pm

Am I the only person who beleives JB is doing a good job.

We do only get under 5000 fans in an average game. Where are all the fans who turned up against Leeds.

How many of us turned up at the millenium stadium? 25,000.

After all thats happened, I'm glad DD has gone. I have rarely agreed with his team choices or signings.

Kinsella is MY first choice.

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Re: Dicky's gone

Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:57 pm

Ellies Dad wrote:Am I the only person who beleives JB is doing a good job.

We do only get under 5000 fans in an average game. Where are all the fans who turned up against Leeds.


You're in a shrinking collection of people, ED. Ask yourself why we STILL get under 5000 a game after 20 years of Bonser.

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