Uruguay vs Ghana

Saddlers fans reaction to England's despairs - as they happened. No text speak, please.
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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:46 am

priestley_saddler wrote:I'm not buying into this myth that he acted on instinct. I think it was a conscious decision to save it. In any other game at any other time he'd have more than likely tried to head it clear. He knew the game, he knew the occasion and he knew exactly what he was doing.

I don't see a great deal of difference from Maradona's handball against England or Henry's handball against Ireland. This was equally disgraceful.


Jealousy is a terrible curse!

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:00 pm

priestley_saddler wrote:I'm not buying into this myth that he acted on instinct. I think it was a conscious decision to save it. In any other game at any other time he'd have more than likely tried to head it clear. He knew the game, he knew the occasion and he knew exactly what he was doing.

I don't see a great deal of difference from Maradona's handball against England or Henry's handball against Ireland. This was equally disgraceful.


Same situation, your country about to get knocked out on the very biggest stage, are you telling me you wouldn't have instictly put your arms up to stop that ball?

If your answer is 'no', then either you're:

A) a liar

or

B) a Saint who has a chair with his name on right next to the big man up there in the sky for when it's your time.

I do hope it's the latter.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:56 pm

saddlersam wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:I'm not buying into this myth that he acted on instinct. I think it was a conscious decision to save it. In any other game at any other time he'd have more than likely tried to head it clear. He knew the game, he knew the occasion and he knew exactly what he was doing.

I don't see a great deal of difference from Maradona's handball against England or Henry's handball against Ireland. This was equally disgraceful.


Same situation, your country about to get knocked out on the very biggest stage, are you telling me you wouldn't have instictly put your arms up to stop that ball?

If your answer is 'no', then either you're:

A) a liar

or

B) a Saint who has a chair with his name on right next to the big man up there in the sky for when it's your time.

I do hope it's the latter.

You're not seriously suggesting that you judge whether someone is a cheat based on whether you would or wouldn't have done the same thing?

I may well have done the same thing had I been in his shoes, but I'd like to think I'd have done it knowing what I was doing rather than trying to blame instinct. I'd probably dive to win a penalty too if I thought it would stop my team going out, it wouldn't stop me being a cheat. Had Uruguay been 3-0 up he would have handled it, he'd have either tried or head it or let it go in. So it can't have been instinctive, it was a conscious decision based on the situation, the same as Henry's and Maradona's equivalent handballs.

Saigon Saddler wrote:Jealousy is a terrible curse!


For what it's worth I was 1 year old when Maradona's handball occured, hardly a position to be enraged with jealousy. I just genuinely don't see the difference between this hand ball, Henry's hand ball and Maradona's hand ball?

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:58 pm

I would of thought the instinctive thing would be to head it, seeing as it was an inch from his face.


What a wuss.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:34 pm

He's cheated but I'm not going to get moralistic about it.

This penalty goal is a nonsense and refs would get stoned if they gave one of these and the shot was then found to be off target? How would one referee a goalbound shot that went in off of a post or crossbar?

Like the article said - if Gyan had have scored, there would have been no attempt at getting a penalty goal into the rule book.

12 yards and around 190 square feet of goal to aim at... It really is not that hard, especially with the carrot of a WC semi at the end of it.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:32 pm

priestley_saddler wrote:For what it's worth I was 1 year old when Maradona's handball occured, hardly a position to be enraged with jealousy. I just genuinely don't see the difference between this hand ball, Henry's hand ball and Maradona's hand ball?

There was no difference. He even said in a post match interview "I now have the hand of God". His save was not instinct, it was a conscious, desperate last-gasp attempt to keep his side in the Cup.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:20 am

Exile wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:For what it's worth I was 1 year old when Maradona's handball occured, hardly a position to be enraged with jealousy. I just genuinely don't see the difference between this hand ball, Henry's hand ball and Maradona's hand ball?

There was no difference. He even said in a post match interview "I now have the hand of God". His save was not instinct, it was a conscious, desperate last-gasp attempt to keep his side in the Cup.


That worked. If FIFA wanted to get tough on the lad (or had the balls to do so) they could have increased the mandatory one match ban to two to keep him out of either the final or the third-fourth playoff

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:44 am

priestley_saddler wrote:
saddlersam wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:I'm not buying into this myth that he acted on instinct. I think it was a conscious decision to save it. In any other game at any other time he'd have more than likely tried to head it clear. He knew the game, he knew the occasion and he knew exactly what he was doing.

I don't see a great deal of difference from Maradona's handball against England or Henry's handball against Ireland. This was equally disgraceful.


Same situation, your country about to get knocked out on the very biggest stage, are you telling me you wouldn't have instictly put your arms up to stop that ball?

If your answer is 'no', then either you're:

A) a liar

or

B) a Saint who has a chair with his name on right next to the big man up there in the sky for when it's your time.

I do hope it's the latter.

You're not seriously suggesting that you judge whether someone is a cheat based on whether you would or wouldn't have done the same thing?

I may well have done the same thing had I been in his shoes, but I'd like to think I'd have done it knowing what I was doing rather than trying to blame instinct. I'd probably dive to win a penalty too if I thought it would stop my team going out, it wouldn't stop me being a cheat. Had Uruguay been 3-0 up he would have handled it, he'd have either tried or head it or let it go in. So it can't have been instinctive, it was a conscious decision based on the situation, the same as Henry's and Maradona's equivalent handballs.
Saigon Saddler wrote:Jealousy is a terrible curse!


For what it's worth I was 1 year old when Maradona's handball occured, hardly a position to be enraged with jealousy. I just genuinely don't see the difference between this hand ball, Henry's hand ball and Maradona's hand ball?



I simply don't see how you can think it wasn't perhaps instinctive. You react, fight or flight, whatever.

It wasn't the same as Henry's either. Suarez's happened in a split second, Henry juggled it. Suarez was sent off and had a penalty awarded against him, Henry didn't.

Gyan, who had a brilliant World Cup lashed it against the bar. I guarantee this thread wouldn't be as long if he'd have put it away.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:29 am

saddlersam wrote:I simply don't see how you can think it wasn't perhaps instinctive. You react, fight or flight, whatever.

I don't know how any football fan who has watched a replay, either in real time or stopmotion, can come to that conclusion.


saddlersam wrote:It wasn't the same as Henry's either. Suarez's happened in a split second, Henry juggled it. Suarez was sent off and had a penalty awarded against him, Henry didn't.

It wasn't the same because Henry's wasn't spotted.

saddlersam wrote:Gyan, who had a brilliant World Cup lashed it against the bar. I guarantee this thread wouldn't be as long if he'd have put it away.


Probably not.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:44 am

Retrospective punishment for this, call it what you want, cheating, instinctive whatever, would be wrong. Totally wrong. The punishment was given. A red card, misses the semi (which could well be his country's last game) and a penalty. Should Harry Kewell get banned for longer too? Inconsistancies.

I wish people would open their eyes and put aside their soft spot for Ghana. It happened, it's the same as anyone diving and there's more controversy about this than the couple of sendings off that were brought on by Rivaldo style injury feigning which were simply terrible.

If it had happened 20 minutes earlier in the game people wouldn't be so fussed about it.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:47 am

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:He's cheated but I'm not going to get moralistic about it.

This penalty goal is a nonsense and refs would get stoned if they gave one of these and the shot was then found to be off target? How would one referee a goalbound shot that went in off of a post or crossbar?

Like the article said - if Gyan had have scored, there would have been no attempt at getting a penalty goal into the rule book.

12 yards and around 190 square feet of goal to aim at... It really is not that hard, especially with the carrot of a WC semi at the end of it.


The penalty goal would be awarded if the player is on the line and deliberately handles the ball to stop it going in. So the shot would be on target in order for the player to do it in the first place.

Of course its so easy to score a penalty. If it was as easy as you make out, why not just award the goal and stop penalties altogether. :roll:

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:48 am

Exile wrote:
saddlersam wrote:I simply don't see how you can think it wasn't perhaps instinctive. You react, fight or flight, whatever.

I don't know how any football fan who has watched a replay, either in real time or stopmotion, can come to that conclusion.


saddlersam wrote:It wasn't the same as Henry's either. Suarez's happened in a split second, Henry juggled it. Suarez was sent off and had a penalty awarded against him, Henry didn't.

It wasn't the same because Henry's wasn't spotted.

saddlersam wrote:Gyan, who had a brilliant World Cup lashed it against the bar. I guarantee this thread wouldn't be as long if he'd have put it away.


Probably not.


I am a football fan (cheers for that one) and I, along with a hell of a lot of others came to that conclusion.

It wasn't just because Henry's wasn't spotted. He played it off his hands twice, juggled it in to a position to put the ball across the goal.

Ghana had a chance to put the game to bed, by the rules of the game which are fine in this instance, and fluffed it from 12 yards out.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:59 am

saddlersam wrote:If it had happened 20 minutes earlier in the game people wouldn't be so fussed about it.

Image

Precisely, because it wouldn't have happened 20 minutes earlier in the game. 20 minutes earlier would have meant it wasn't the last action of the match and had Ghana scored Uruguay would have still been in a position to try and pull it back. In that instance, I imagine his instinctive reaction would have been to try and clear it off the line like he would have done at any other time.

He decided before that ball came across that if it was going in he was going to stop it. I genuinely believe that and, if you don't, we'll have to agree to disagree I think.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:56 am

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Fray Bentos is God! wrote:He's cheated but I'm not going to get moralistic about it.

This penalty goal is a nonsense and refs would get stoned if they gave one of these and the shot was then found to be off target? How would one referee a goalbound shot that went in off of a post or crossbar?

Like the article said - if Gyan had have scored, there would have been no attempt at getting a penalty goal into the rule book.

12 yards and around 190 square feet of goal to aim at... It really is not that hard, especially with the carrot of a WC semi at the end of it.


The penalty goal would be awarded if the player is on the line and deliberately handles the ball to stop it going in. So the shot would be on target in order for the player to do it in the first place.

Of course its so easy to score a penalty. If it was as easy as you make out, why not just award the goal and stop penalties altogether. :roll:


Ok, where do you draw the mark? Guy wails his arms at a shot when he's on the yard line? What about the penalty spot? It's still in the box and it's still blocking the shot.

What if that shot, given as a "penalty goal" were to be judged off target after analysis? Then you open a whole can of cack which noone has the answer to.

Penalties aren't hard. As Sam says, if the same thing happened with a few minutes left to go we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it happened with the last kick of time.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:13 pm

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Fray Bentos is God! wrote:He's cheated but I'm not going to get moralistic about it.

This penalty goal is a nonsense and refs would get stoned if they gave one of these and the shot was then found to be off target? How would one referee a goalbound shot that went in off of a post or crossbar?

Like the article said - if Gyan had have scored, there would have been no attempt at getting a penalty goal into the rule book.

12 yards and around 190 square feet of goal to aim at... It really is not that hard, especially with the carrot of a WC semi at the end of it.


The penalty goal would be awarded if the player is on the line and deliberately handles the ball to stop it going in. So the shot would be on target in order for the player to do it in the first place.

Of course its so easy to score a penalty. If it was as easy as you make out, why not just award the goal and stop penalties altogether. :roll:


Ok, where do you draw the mark? Guy wails his arms at a shot when he's on the yard line? What about the penalty spot? It's still in the box and it's still blocking the shot.

What if that shot, given as a "penalty goal" were to be judged off target after analysis? Then you open a whole can of cack which noone has the answer to.

Penalties aren't hard. As Sam says, if the same thing happened with a few minutes left to go we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it happened with the last kick of time.


As I said in my post "The penalty goal would be awarded if the player is on the line and deliberately handles the ball to stop it going in. So the shot would be on target in order for the player to do it in the first place.".
That is where I would draw the line, the line that says the ball would have crossed the line if the player had not have handled it.
If the player is on 6 yard line and handles the ball, and the ball was going in, yes, a penatly goal would be awarded.

I would hope we would have camera technology as well. so we would be able to analyis in seconds. I am sure you must agree this technology is required now.

You cannot say how hard a penalty is until you are in the said position. Like players say and the tv presenters, you can practice as much as you like, but until you are in that situattion with the difference pressures involved, you cannot say it is easy.
Even the best penalty takers miss, ask Super Frank.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:38 pm

saddlersam wrote:
Exile wrote:
saddlersam wrote:I simply don't see how you can think it wasn't perhaps instinctive. You react, fight or flight, whatever.

I don't know how any football fan who has watched a replay, either in real time or stopmotion, can come to that conclusion.


saddlersam wrote:It wasn't the same as Henry's either. Suarez's happened in a split second, Henry juggled it. Suarez was sent off and had a penalty awarded against him, Henry didn't.

It wasn't the same because Henry's wasn't spotted.

saddlersam wrote:Gyan, who had a brilliant World Cup lashed it against the bar. I guarantee this thread wouldn't be as long if he'd have put it away.


Probably not.


I am a football fan (cheers for that one) and I, along with a hell of a lot of others came to that conclusion.

It wasn't just because Henry's wasn't spotted. He played it off his hands twice, juggled it in to a position to put the ball across the goal.

Ghana had a chance to put the game to bed, by the rules of the game which are fine in this instance, and fluffed it from 12 yards out.


I don't know how any football player or fan can come to the conclusion that wasn't instinctive.

It was ball-hand-out, rather than ball, ball, here comes the ball, ball, here is the ball-WHACK.

Anyway, it was a dive that led to the free-kick that led to the incident. Also Uruguay are ace and Ghana are crying nonces.

:lol:

EAT MY instinctive HAND OF GOD!

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:17 pm

They need at least two hands of god now. Time the cheats went home. Yes, that could apply to most teams, so perhaps time the bigger cheats went home.

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:40 pm

Exile wrote:They need at least two hands of god now. Time the cheats went home. Yes, that could apply to most teams, so perhaps time the bigger cheats went home.


Has God got two hands? :?

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Re: Uruguay vs Ghana

Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:41 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
Exile wrote:They need at least two hands of god now. Time the cheats went home. Yes, that could apply to most teams, so perhaps time the bigger cheats went home.


Has God got two hands? :?

Two one-armed gods would have done.

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