Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Saddlers fans reaction to England's despairs - as they happened. No text speak, please.
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Pedagogue
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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:52 am

latviancheese wrote:Gilks did play 20 games for Blackpool last season, so I don't think they can decide who their goalkeeper is.


True - but Rachubka was their "Player of the Season", last season although Gilks played at Wembley. It's still a depressing prospect for English goalkeepers, though! :twisted:

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:01 am

Pedagogue wrote:
latviancheese wrote:Gilks did play 20 games for Blackpool last season, so I don't think they can decide who their goalkeeper is.


True - but Rachubka was their "Player of the Season", last season although Gilks played at Wembley. It's still a depressing prospect for English goalkeepers, though! :twisted:


Yeah but id still be more worried about the Defence.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:23 am

latviancheese wrote:
Jeremy Busby wrote:
Goalkeeping is a classic example. Ho many clubs in the Premiership have a goalkeeper as first choice who is English? I suspect that they can be counted on one hand


Wigan (Kirkland), Birmingham ( Hart), West Brom (carson), West Ham (Green), Blackburn (Robinson), Blackpool (Gilks), Hewcastle (Harper) + james.

So thats eight with three of them coming up with promoted teams.


Therefore Jeremy was right. If you are from Wolverhampton, you can count them on one hand :D

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:55 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Exile wrote:Sheff, one of the over-riding reasons for the establishment of the Premier League, which saw money sucked from every level of English fotball to the chosen elite, was that it would benefit English football.

Could you explain to all of us how England has benefitted since then?

After 20 years, nothing. It is a moneypit for greedy people, and adds absolutely no value whatsoever to English football.


There are now around 40 acadamies across the country, 17 of which are in the Premier League.

Approximately 85% of the 16-18 years olds and 95% of the 16 year olds and under are British.

From next season, clubs must include 8 home grown players out of the squad of 25.

It is recognised as one of best leagues in the World and the money created from it has been invested in football grass roots.

These are just a few examples.

Again Exile, you are jumping on the band wagon that as been created by poor performing players and management in the World Cup.
Where were your concerns before the World Cup and then England team in particular? Tell me....


Of course, you miss the point completely that "home grown" does NOT mean English. A 14 year old bought over from Spain to an Academy would count as "home grown". Could you tell me when the last "home grown" player broke into the squad of you beloved Chelsea since Abramovich took over and how many were in last year's squad?

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:01 pm

Isnt there a rule where if your schooled in the country you are eligible to play for them? Thats how Scotland acquired Steven Fletcher anyway i think.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:08 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
PT wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:It makes you laugh when you consider the Premier League is totally to blame for Englands dismal showing in the World Cup, that is what people are saying and of course its utter tosh.
As the Premier League did not exist until 1992 I believe.
So then between 1966 and 1992, what was to blame?
Basically apart from 1990, England have performed no worse in the World Cup since the Premier League began then before it. FACT!
One of the main core problems we have is that kids in this country would rather play 3 hours on a play station or on facebook then play football. Thats were the talent loss starts and thats were it needs to be addressed.


Got to disagree sheff.

The Premier League clubs do have networks of scouts and academies that spot and hone some real talent and the potential that sits within that talent has a far better chance of being realised given the expertise thrown at them. Unfortunately, the opportunity the Premier League has created with one hand, it snatches away with the culture it has created with the other. So lads get to their first professional contract and part of them thinks they have made it, they have more money than anyone they know. Then their agent gets in their ear about how much they could be earning, what other lads earn and the need to be business savvy. Their new found wealth creates a sycophantic environment around them, they are kings of their world at 18/19.

Meanwhile a Dutch kid, a Brazilian kid, a French kid or a kid from the Ivory Coast (I believe Drogba didn't get his first contract until he was 21, 3 or 4 years after his English counterparts had began competing over the best car,watch, house and girlfriend)get their first professional contract at the same time. Sure, it is good to be earning money for playing a game and they now have the means to sustain themselves for now, but they aren't rich. To go on to make themselves really wealthy and join a top European Club, maybe Chelsea, they know they have to keep working, keep developing, keep listening and above all else keep hungry. An extra three or four years of vital development that means that many will ultimately come to England as more rounded footballers and human beings to replace the English prospect who looked a player at 18 but now has to find solace in settling for only £30k a week at a Blackburn or West Ham.

So the Premier League is the cruelest of mistresses in that its wealth creates the opportunity for excellence. But then it is that very wealth that means that footballers don't realise their potential either as players or as men. Greenwood, Robson and to an extent Taylor had men who simply didn't have the talent to compete (Carlton Palmer was the bedrock of Taylors midfield!). Erikson and Cappello have had talent and ability to compete but with a group of men-children who can't take the responsibilities and accountability expected of most adults because the Premier League takes gifted kids with potential, gives them the trappings of success and they thus remain gifted kids with potential, often right up to retirement. And the really sad thing is that far from not having the depth of talent what we have is a depth of wasted talent. Jermaine Pennant and Joey Barton, please take a bow on behalf of a score or so like you, who could actually have been playing in a World Cup semi-final tonight.


Absolutely brilliant!


In what way is that brilliant?
Because it is incorrect, like most of your front page ramblings Neil?

PT, as the Premier League as been in existence since 1992, thats 18 years, can you give me examples of the lads you talk about in your first paragraph?
I would be interested to see....

As I stated before and to which no one as come up with a logical reason, the Premier League as existed since 1992, yet England have been as successful/unsuccessful in World Cup competion pre 1992.
Amazing really.

PT, what are your examples of these leading kids from Holland, Brazil and France earning next to nothing?

The Premier League is an excuse that people like you and Neil and others have used as a tool as the reason the national squad have failed.
Show me the posts pre World Cup that blamed the Premier League for this.
You have simply just jumped on a band wagon because you have read about it.


Sheff, do I really need to fish out examples to point out to you that a first year professional in Brazil will earn substantially less than a first year professional in the Premier League? And I'm sure an intelligent lad like yourself will know all about "Direction nationale du controle de gestion" in France and the controversy caused by Arsenal's signing of Dutch kid Ebecilio, the circumstances of which prove my point (in fact it's so obvious I hope I haven't been whooshed here).

As Leic says I do give examples in my post and I do describe how the premier league academies do in fact generate and hone talent because the money now in the premier league affords this. Between 1970 and 1992 the game in england became bankrupt, so it could barely afford to spot and hone talent let alone have it compete on a world stage. My gripe with the Premier League is what its culture then does with its ample harvest.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:58 am

Whilst we're on the subject i see that Chelsea have signed a youngster.............from Sigma Olomuc in the Czech republic!! :shock:

Quoting from the BBC site (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/8797276.stm):-

"Chelsea have signed the highly-rated teenage Czech centre-back Tomas Kalas.

The 17-year-old will stay in his homeland on loan next season with his club Sigma Olomuc before moving to Stamford Bridge.

....

Details of the contract have not been released, although Czech media reported Olomouc could get about 160 million koruna (£5.2m) for the defender. "

:roll: :roll:

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:41 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
PT wrote:I think this is why it is good that we kept Capello.

A new manager tends to kick-off with a "clean slate" policy whereas a lot of the current squad have filthy slates that THEY should work hard to clean and if they don't possess the necessary gumption or appetite they can "do one" to use a vernacular one or two of them might be familiar with.



I agree. Out should go James (too old), Green (never was good enough), Johnson (can't defend - might try him as a winger), Ferdinand (too old), Terry (too old), Carragher (too old and he's 'retired' again), Cole (unless he can remeber he's supposed to be a footballer, not the main player in a soap opera with his bloody missus), Lennon (crud), Wright Phillips (crud), Gerrard (too old), Heskey (too old), Defoe, not good enough at the top international level, Crouch, ditto. Forget the Euros and concentrate on having a decent team for Brazil 2014.




How can you say Crouch is not good enough ?
Look at his record for England !!!
Can i have some of what your smoking !!!!!!

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:31 pm

Tyldesley_saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
PT wrote:I think this is why it is good that we kept Capello.

A new manager tends to kick-off with a "clean slate" policy whereas a lot of the current squad have filthy slates that THEY should work hard to clean and if they don't possess the necessary gumption or appetite they can "do one" to use a vernacular one or two of them might be familiar with.



I agree. Out should go James (too old), Green (never was good enough), Johnson (can't defend - might try him as a winger), Ferdinand (too old), Terry (too old), Carragher (too old and he's 'retired' again), Cole (unless he can remeber he's supposed to be a footballer, not the main player in a soap opera with his bloody missus), Lennon (crud), Wright Phillips (crud), Gerrard (too old), Heskey (too old), Defoe, not good enough at the top international level, Crouch, ditto. Forget the Euros and concentrate on having a decent team for Brazil 2014.




How can you say Crouch is not good enough ?
Look at his record for England !!!
Can i have some of what your smoking !!!!!!


look at the teams he was playing against.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:43 pm

latviancheese wrote:
Tyldesley_saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
PT wrote:I think this is why it is good that we kept Capello.

A new manager tends to kick-off with a "clean slate" policy whereas a lot of the current squad have filthy slates that THEY should work hard to clean and if they don't possess the necessary gumption or appetite they can "do one" to use a vernacular one or two of them might be familiar with.



I agree. Out should go James (too old), Green (never was good enough), Johnson (can't defend - might try him as a winger), Ferdinand (too old), Terry (too old), Carragher (too old and he's 'retired' again), Cole (unless he can remeber he's supposed to be a footballer, not the main player in a soap opera with his bloody missus), Lennon (crud), Wright Phillips (crud), Gerrard (too old), Heskey (too old), Defoe, not good enough at the top international level, Crouch, ditto. Forget the Euros and concentrate on having a decent team for Brazil 2014.




How can you say Crouch is not good enough ?
Look at his record for England !!!
Can i have some of what your smoking !!!!!!


look at the teams he was playing against.


Yes, every time he's up against quality, he looks what he is, an average Premiership striker - which is why no managers keep him very long

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:52 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
latviancheese wrote:
Tyldesley_saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
PT wrote:I think this is why it is good that we kept Capello.

A new manager tends to kick-off with a "clean slate" policy whereas a lot of the current squad have filthy slates that THEY should work hard to clean and if they don't possess the necessary gumption or appetite they can "do one" to use a vernacular one or two of them might be familiar with.



I agree. Out should go James (too old), Green (never was good enough), Johnson (can't defend - might try him as a winger), Ferdinand (too old), Terry (too old), Carragher (too old and he's 'retired' again), Cole (unless he can remeber he's supposed to be a footballer, not the main player in a soap opera with his bloody missus), Lennon (crud), Wright Phillips (crud), Gerrard (too old), Heskey (too old), Defoe, not good enough at the top international level, Crouch, ditto. Forget the Euros and concentrate on having a decent team for Brazil 2014.




How can you say Crouch is not good enough ?
Look at his record for England !!!
Can i have some of what your smoking !!!!!!


look at the teams he was playing against.


Yes, every time he's up against quality, he looks what he is, an average Premiership striker - which is why no managers keep him very long


Okay, I'll go with that, can you give me some examples ? The best team we played in the qualifiers for Euro 2008 was Croatio, whom he scored against. We played no one any better in the qualifiers for World Cup 2010. Bear in mind 3 out of the 4 games we played in the World Cup were against mediocre to poor sides, which are apparently the only teams he scores against, well sod me we managed 2 goals in those 3 games, with his record against so called weak sides, he would have scored 3 himself.

I'm not saying we should have built a team around him, but he should certainly have played in front of the mule Heskey, and by the time the Slovakia game came round, he should most certainly have started before Rooney.

As for the future, I'd still use him, cos right now I don't think we have anything better.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:36 pm

I like Crouch and he would certainly be in my squads if i was manager.

I just get narked that people think he is brilliant because he scored a hat trick against Jamaica once, and pulled on Brent Sanchos hair to score against Trinidad :mrgreen:

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:59 pm

latviancheese wrote:I like Crouch and he would certainly be in my squads if i was manager.

I just get narked that people think he is brilliant because he scored a hat trick against Jamaica once, and pulled on Brent Sanchos hair to score against Trinidad :mrgreen:



I don't think he is brilliant, I do think there is a place for him, and that he adds something to a team. As I said, I don't think we have anyone any better, sad as that may be.

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Re: Capello Promises to Axe 'Stars'

Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:07 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
latviancheese wrote:I like Crouch and he would certainly be in my squads if i was manager.

I just get narked that people think he is brilliant because he scored a hat trick against Jamaica once, and pulled on Brent Sanchos hair to score against Trinidad :mrgreen:



I don't think he is brilliant, I do think there is a place for him, and that he adds something to a team. As I said, I don't think we have anyone any better, sad as that may be.


Id rather we didnt play high balls to him either, hes crap with his head. I just think he is a decent player in his own right, other than being a beanpole. Have you ever see him try to jump? It ay pretty.

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