Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:52 pm

PJD wrote:Spain are only the third team to be World Champions and European Champions and people are lining up to say they're rubbish and they'd rather watch England play!! England were utterly utterly rubbish, amongst the very worst teams in this tournament.

I give up!!



I'm surprised by that post, because you are usually one of the more sensible posters.

I'd rather watch England, after all I'm English, like I'd rather watch Walsall, but know full well there are tonnes of other teams I could watch which would be better.

I think Spain were deserved winners, but I disagree with all the hype about them. I have mentioned in other threads, that the standard of teams in general was awful, worst I can remember, and they were quite frankly the best of a bad bunch. They aren't one of the greatest sides in world cup history, which has been mentioned a few times.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:55 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
PJD wrote:Spain are only the third team to be World Champions and European Champions and people are lining up to say they're rubbish and they'd rather watch England play!! England were utterly utterly rubbish, amongst the very worst teams in this tournament.

I give up!!



I'm surprised by that post, because you are usually one of the more sensible posters.

I'd rather watch England, after all I'm English, like I'd rather watch Walsall, but know full well there are tonnes of other teams I could watch which would be better.

I think Spain were deserved winners, but I disagree with all the hype about them. I have mentioned in other threads, that the standard of teams in general was awful, worst I can remember, and they were quite frankly the best of a bad bunch. They aren't one of the greatest sides in world cup history, which has been mentioned a few times.


It was a World Cup where systems and tactics won out over flair and individuality. And the tournament was worse for it.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:28 pm

Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:
saddlersam wrote:
Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:Ahhh such close minded opinions! :wink:

Let me explain why Spain I think Spain are the beat team in the world and Europe.. No hyperbole there mr pedogoguguhugue - because they are.

I went to the national Brazilian academy for 6 years. The major tenets of the game I was taught were first touch, movement, first touch, possession, movement, first touch and so on...

Brazil play the exact same system as Spain and no one has moaned about them have they in history? Keep the ball, be supremely confident under pressure and want to have the ball. The english were scared to have it, could not control a ball and lost possession with aimless hoofs up field - it astounds me that people actually seriously believe that is more entertaining!! People wonder why we are rubbish on the world stage - that is why. Skill is coached out of our youngsters whereas in other countries it is actively encouraged - until that change then we have no chance.


But Spain DON'T play like Brazil (used to) though!! You say they're taught to but last night and for the last 2 years they've not even come close to how the traditionalist would view Brazil. They've gone backwards in the style of their play since Euro 2008. The Spanish team we saw last night doesn't touch what we used to see in a Brazil team, they're far, far more boring to watch, arrogant in what they do, nonchalant in the final 3rd and I feel they often show complete supercilious behaviour to the opposition and in particular the referee.

For all their tiki taka football or what ever it's called (and there really wasn't much of it throughout their run to the final, regardless of what you or Alan Hansen would say) their conning antics and waving of cards were as bad as the tackles the Dutch were flying in with.


alright Sam. Well I think we saw a different Spain because every single team parked the bus with 11 men behind the ball -that is extremely hard to break down at international level. If any side would have given them space you would have seen a far more enterprising and direct Spain..


Germany? And in that game Spain were only a little better than they were at any other point.

We'll agree to disagree! :wink:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:36 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
PJD wrote:Spain are only the third team to be World Champions and European Champions and people are lining up to say they're rubbish and they'd rather watch England play!! England were utterly utterly rubbish, amongst the very worst teams in this tournament.

I give up!!

I'm surprised by that post, because you are usually one of the more sensible posters.

I'd rather watch England, after all I'm English, like I'd rather watch Walsall, but know full well there are tonnes of other teams I could watch which would be better.

I think Spain were deserved winners, but I disagree with all the hype about them. I have mentioned in other threads, that the standard of teams in general was awful, worst I can remember, and they were quite frankly the best of a bad bunch. They aren't one of the greatest sides in world cup history, which has been mentioned a few times.

I should have included the caveat "if you were a neutral" who would you rather watch Spain or England?

Of course being English we had to watch that train wreck called the England team in South Africa, but I don't get how people can criticise the style of Spain's play, when they were better than everyone else. Maybe if Holland hadn't tried to kick them off the park we might have had a better spectacle to watch last night.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:01 pm

PJD wrote:
Blazing_Saddler wrote:
PJD wrote:Spain are only the third team to be World Champions and European Champions and people are lining up to say they're rubbish and they'd rather watch England play!! England were utterly utterly rubbish, amongst the very worst teams in this tournament.

I give up!!

I'm surprised by that post, because you are usually one of the more sensible posters.

I'd rather watch England, after all I'm English, like I'd rather watch Walsall, but know full well there are tonnes of other teams I could watch which would be better.

I think Spain were deserved winners, but I disagree with all the hype about them. I have mentioned in other threads, that the standard of teams in general was awful, worst I can remember, and they were quite frankly the best of a bad bunch. They aren't one of the greatest sides in world cup history, which has been mentioned a few times.

I should have included the caveat "if you were a neutral" who would you rather watch Spain or England?

Of course being English we had to watch that train wreck called the England team in South Africa, but I don't get how people can criticise the style of Spain's play, when they were better than everyone else. Maybe if Holland hadn't tried to kick them off the park we might have had a better spectacle to watch last night.


I still stand by the fact that Germany vs. Holland would've been a better spectacle for everybody.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:08 pm

saddlersam wrote:I still stand by the fact that Germany vs. Holland would've been a better spectacle for everybody.

South Africa vs Ghana would have been a better spectacle, but neither would be the best team in the world and right now Spain are.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:02 pm

PJD wrote:
saddlersam wrote:I still stand by the fact that Germany vs. Holland would've been a better spectacle for everybody.

South Africa vs Ghana would have been a better spectacle, but neither would be the best team in the world and right now Spain are.


They are the best team in the world , although the best team in the world doesn't always win the world cup. I think my point was, that despite winning the world cup, and being the best side, they aren't actually that great, and the standard of teams in this world cup has been pretty shocking.

Still having said all that, there prospects for the future, look a whole lot better than ours :cry:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:35 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:England being bad does not make Spain good or entertaining. Classic straw man argument, must do better.


...and don't forgot the argument from authority:
Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:I went to the national Brazilian academy for 6 years.


Epic fail. :wink:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:42 pm

PJD wrote:Spain are only the third team to be World Champions and European Champions and people are lining up to say they're rubbish and they'd rather watch England play!! England were utterly utterly rubbish, amongst the very worst teams in this tournament.

I give up!!



Me too for me the best team in the world cup won the world cup .
Holland were lucky to end the first half with 10 outfield players ,fair play to the ref the game could have turned in to a farce the number of red cards he could have issued .

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:43 pm

PJD wrote:
Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:Ahhh such close minded opinions! :wink:

Let me explain why Spain I think Spain are the beat team in the world and Europe.. No hyperbole there mr pedogoguguhugue - because they are.

I went to the national Brazilian academy for 6 years. The major tenets of the game I was taught were first touch, movement, first touch, possession, movement, first touch and so on...

Brazil play the exact same system as Spain and no one has moaned about them have they in history? Keep the ball, be supremely confident under pressure and want to have the ball. The english were scared to have it, could not control a ball and lost possession with aimless hoofs up field - it astounds me that people actually seriously believe that is more entertaining!! People wonder why we are rubbish on the world stage - that is why. Skill is coached out of our youngsters whereas in other countries it is actively encouraged - until that change then we have no chance.

Agreed 100%. The sad thing is that in the early eighties it was understood by many of the best coaches in the English game, most prominently by Brian Clough, but also Paisley, Lyle, Robson etc etc (and even in our own case Alan Buckley). Where did it all go wrong?


Completely agree with both of you.

If sumptious passing, fabulous first touch and amazing backheels, flicks and sixpence turns don't make you froth at the mouth when watching football, then let's all return to the hoof it and run 'physicality' of John Beck and other such football criminals of that ilk.

Spain were amazing and it was only the layered defences of their opponents that made their total superiority take longer than desired to achieve results. That is how football - beautiful and effective - should be played, but you may choose to disagree of course. However it seems that Spain's only crime is not to play in yellow and be called 'Brazil'. :wink:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:51 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:However it seems that Spain's only crime is not to play in yellow and be called 'Brazil'


[pedant mode] technically, that's two crimes [/pedant mode] :wink:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:12 pm

Exile wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:However it seems that Spain's only crime is not to play in yellow and be called 'Brazil'


[pedant mode] technically, that's two crimes [/pedant mode] :wink:


The crime is contingent on all factors being applied - so the crime is actually not to play in yellow and be called Brazil (and you could add) while eating vanilla ice-cream and singing "A whole lotta Rosie". I hope this helps your compulsive-obsessive pedantry :wink:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:33 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
PJD wrote:
Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:Ahhh such close minded opinions! :wink:

Let me explain why Spain I think Spain are the beat team in the world and Europe.. No hyperbole there mr pedogoguguhugue - because they are.

I went to the national Brazilian academy for 6 years. The major tenets of the game I was taught were first touch, movement, first touch, possession, movement, first touch and so on...

Brazil play the exact same system as Spain and no one has moaned about them have they in history? Keep the ball, be supremely confident under pressure and want to have the ball. The english were scared to have it, could not control a ball and lost possession with aimless hoofs up field - it astounds me that people actually seriously believe that is more entertaining!! People wonder why we are rubbish on the world stage - that is why. Skill is coached out of our youngsters whereas in other countries it is actively encouraged - until that change then we have no chance.

Agreed 100%. The sad thing is that in the early eighties it was understood by many of the best coaches in the English game, most prominently by Brian Clough, but also Paisley, Lyle, Robson etc etc (and even in our own case Alan Buckley). Where did it all go wrong?


Completely agree with both of you.

If sumptious passing, fabulous first touch and amazing backheels, flicks and sixpence turns don't make you froth at the mouth when watching football, then let's all return to the hoof it and run 'physicality' of John Beck and other such football criminals of that ilk.

Spain were amazing and it was only the layered defences of their opponents that made their total superiority take longer than desired to achieve results. That is how football - beautiful and effective - should be played, but you may choose to disagree of course. However it seems that Spain's only crime is not to play in yellow and be called 'Brazil'. :wink:


I am sorry to do the multiple quote routine, just spotted something amongst all that which caught my attention.

Brian Clough's sides were never about ball retention, find out any videos of his Forest Side, and it was always quick counter attacking football. There are more than two styles of football than silky football or whatever you want to call it, and hoofball.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:42 pm

I am sorry to do the multiple quote routine, just spotted something amongst all that which caught my attention.

Brian Clough's sides were never about ball retention, find out any videos of his Forest Side, and it was always quick counter attacking football. There are more than two styles of football than silky football or whatever you want to call it, and hoofball.


I didn't say there weren't alternatives, just that we 'might as well' return to a particular style. I don't mind the quick counter-attacking style at all, but it's best when played at pace with balls to feet (Germany) rather than hoof it to the big man up front and see what happens.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:46 pm

There is no way that football "Should" be played. What a fudging boring sport it would be then?

Football snobbery at its finest.

I dont see all this brilliant attacking stuff that Spain apparently play. They keep the ball for stupendous periods of time, thats what i call defensive.

Besides, i thought Germany were the best team to watch in the tournament by a loooooooooooooong way.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:50 pm

latviancheese wrote:There is no way that football "Should" be played. What a fudging boring sport it would be then?

Football snobbery at its finest.

I dont see all this brilliant attacking stuff that Spain apparently play. They keep the ball for stupendous periods of time, thats what i call defensive.

Besides, i thought Germany were the best team to watch in the tournament by a loooooooooooooong way.


Wasn't that because you had them in a sweepstake? :wink:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:21 pm

Nope :D

I just like the way they play, they have perfected the counter attack. Of course if everyone played this style of play, it just simply would not work :wink:

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:17 am

latviancheese wrote:Nope :D

I just like the way they play, they have perfected the counter attack.

[Empire mode]If they'd perfected the counter attack we'd have lost the second world war in the Ardennes.[/Empire mode] :D

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:43 am

latviancheese wrote:There is no way that football "Should" be played.


I agree. But there is a way it shouldn't be played, and the "anti-football" of the Dutch on Sunday was an example of that. No wonder Wesley Sneijder was crying at the end. When he was growing up and learning to play, I guess his dreams of a World Cup Final performance didn't involve chasing shadows and then attempting to kick the opposition off the field as he was ordered to do on Sunday.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:07 am

I noticed some stats rolling through Sky Sports News last night

Most shots in tournament Spain
Most shots on target Spain
Most fouled against team Spain

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:59 am

chestersaddler wrote:I noticed some stats rolling through Sky Sports News last night

Most shots in tournament Spain
Most shots on target Spain

Most fouled against team Spain



Means nothing though.

8 goals in the whole tournament. And people say Lampard has wayward shooting. How clinical does that also make the Germans?!

Also, I've seen very few teams dive like Spain dived in that final.

Lies, lies and statistics.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:24 am

saddlersam wrote:
chestersaddler wrote:I noticed some stats rolling through Sky Sports News last night

Most shots in tournament Spain
Most shots on target Spain

Most fouled against team Spain



Means nothing though.

8 goals in the whole tournament. And people say Lampard has wayward shooting. How clinical does that also make the Germans?!

Also, I've seen very few teams dive like Spain dived in that final.

Lies, lies and statistics.



It means what it says. No lies, just facts.

Of course you can dismiss them as they do not support your argument.

I think that they do help to challenge the notion that Spain are only good at passing the ball around their back four.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:35 am

latviancheese wrote:There is no way that football "Should" be played. What a fudging boring sport it would be then?

Football snobbery at its finest.

I dont see all this brilliant attacking stuff that Spain apparently play. They keep the ball for stupendous periods of time, thats what i call defensive.

Besides, i thought Germany were the best team to watch in the tournament by a loooooooooooooong way.

Agreed.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:36 am

Exile wrote:
latviancheese wrote:Nope :D

I just like the way they play, they have perfected the counter attack.

[Empire mode]If they'd perfected the counter attack we'd have lost the second world war in the Ardennes.[/Empire mode] :D


Doubtful, while they wasted the last major armoured reserves on a limited offensive in the West the Red army was busy chewing up the Germans to the East.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:37 am

priestley_saddler wrote:
latviancheese wrote:There is no way that football "Should" be played. What a fudging boring sport it would be then?

Football snobbery at its finest.

I dont see all this brilliant attacking stuff that Spain apparently play. They keep the ball for stupendous periods of time, thats what i call defensive.

Besides, i thought Germany were the best team to watch in the tournament by a loooooooooooooong way.

Agreed.


I have to agree also, was very impressed with the Germans during the tournament, will be interesting to see how they evolve for the Euros

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:01 am

derbysaddler wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:
latviancheese wrote:There is no way that football "Should" be played. What a fudging boring sport it would be then?

Football snobbery at its finest.

I dont see all this brilliant attacking stuff that Spain apparently play. They keep the ball for stupendous periods of time, thats what i call defensive.

Besides, i thought Germany were the best team to watch in the tournament by a loooooooooooooong way.

Agreed.


I have to agree also, was very impressed with the Germans during the tournament, will be interesting to see how they evolve for the Euros

Apparently they are thinking of going back to the Deutsche Mark.



I'll get my coat.......

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:04 am

chestersaddler wrote:
saddlersam wrote:
chestersaddler wrote:I noticed some stats rolling through Sky Sports News last night

Most shots in tournament Spain
Most shots on target Spain

Most fouled against team Spain

Means nothing though.

8 goals in the whole tournament. And people say Lampard has wayward shooting. How clinical does that also make the Germans?!

Also, I've seen very few teams dive like Spain dived in that final.

Lies, lies and statistics.

It means what it says. No lies, just facts.

Of course you can dismiss them as they do not support your argument.

I think that they do help to challenge the notion that Spain are only good at passing the ball around their back four.

If Spain had played Australia and England they'd have won both games 8-0 - FACT!

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:32 am

PJD wrote:
derbysaddler wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:
latviancheese wrote:There is no way that football "Should" be played. What a fudging boring sport it would be then?

Football snobbery at its finest.

I dont see all this brilliant attacking stuff that Spain apparently play. They keep the ball for stupendous periods of time, thats what i call defensive.

Besides, i thought Germany were the best team to watch in the tournament by a loooooooooooooong way.

Agreed.


I have to agree also, was very impressed with the Germans during the tournament, will be interesting to see how they evolve for the Euros

Apparently they are thinking of going back to the Deutsche Mark.



I'll get my coat.......


Gott in himmel

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:27 pm

chestersaddler wrote:
saddlersam wrote:
chestersaddler wrote:I noticed some stats rolling through Sky Sports News last night

Most shots in tournament Spain
Most shots on target Spain

Most fouled against team Spain



Means nothing though.

8 goals in the whole tournament. And people say Lampard has wayward shooting. How clinical does that also make the Germans?!

Also, I've seen very few teams dive like Spain dived in that final.

Lies, lies and statistics.



It means what it says. No lies, just facts.

Of course you can dismiss them as they do not support your argument.

I think that they do help to challenge the notion that Spain are only good at passing the ball around their back four.



Midfield 5 :wink:

I hold my hands up, I'm surprised they had more shot on target than anyone else. I may have been a bit distracted by all the rolling around on the floor, imaginary yellow cards they were waving and referee surrounding they were doing. And the say the Dutch played the final with no dignity.

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Re: Netherlands vs. Spain. WORLD CUP FINAL 11/07/2010

Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:31 pm

Thats the spanish for you, not only do they cheat at football, they use British tax payers money to build pointless art galleries and re surface their roads. They also cannot go a day without having a nap. :mrgreen:

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