Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

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ShropsSaddler
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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 9:12 am

I understand that emotion plays a major part in people's reaction to last night, but I hope some fans reflect on their comments this morning and are more reasonable.

Here's the bottom line - we were beaten by a better side in the end. A more physical side who pressed hard and stopped us playing. A side who were really on the up, whereas our team looked like one who had given their all for the season and finally run out of steam. But we gave it a good go last night and all those saying Whitney got the formation wrong are, I believe, completely incorrect. He knew they would give us no space by pressing, so he played a formation which allowed Henry to get forward, he played Mantom as an extra midfielder which meant that he did get on the ball much more in the middle of the park than any of our players did on Saturday, and he played two up front which is what people have been asking for.

So, whilst I concede we were beaten by the better team, the margins are not as great as you would believe. Sometimes it takes a ball to go in off a backside or a deflection to open up a game. Those breaks didn't go for us in either game. At Port Vale, everything we hit went flying into the top corner. Last night, and on Saturday, they went just wide or were mishit.

So now people start to say Whitney shouldn't get the job when, in his 12 games in charge, I understand he got us 25 points. Presumably these are the same fans who didn't want to give Dean Smith a chance as well? A chance to learn, a chance to get his own players in, a chance to address the weaknesses of the team. Am I 100% convinced by him? No. Do I absolutely believe he should be made manager and should be given time? Yes.

Despite the fact that fans are questioning his team selections, I'm really hoping that they are giving us an indication about the type of characters he wants at the club going forward. As much as I like Morris's desire to run at an opponent, there's a reason why 3 managers this season have not seen him as a regular starter. Same with Lalkovic, he does some fancy stuff but, at the end of the day, there's little end product and there's no desire at all to track back and help the team defend.

I'm really hoping that he gets the job and then gets some tougher players in, players who will put their body on the line when needs be and who can impose themselves physically on the game. That's what we lacked last night and on Saturday. Barnsley's front men consistently pushed, pulled and bullied our centre halves off the ball. Were they fouls? Yes. Were they given? No. So you have to hope that the defenders start giving as good as they get, but it was only in the second half that O'Connor finally did, Downing never did.

Anyway, positives out of the game;

Henry - despite the third goal, he was excellent at times, without having a good final product. That's to be expected at his age. But, perhaps most importantly of all, even at 3-1 down, he was battling, showing some pride and not resigned to the defeat. The lad will go far with that attitude.

Mantom - he's not got the ability of Sawyers but I thought he was excellent last night. All over the pitch, always willing to have the ball, always moving to receive it again, and he has the knack of making great runs into the box. A full season from him next year will be invaluable.

Cook - say what you like, the lad runs and he does have some skill, witnessed by that tremendous finish. Maybe we can get more from him?

Otherwise, it's a big close season, but if the right additions are made, then I believe it is entirely possible that, without Sawyers, we could (and I stress could) be a better team albeit with less gifted individuals. For goodness sake, get behind Whitney and give him a chance. He deserves nothing less.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 9:22 am

No, no, no to Whitney as manager.

It'd be like Merson all over again. The lack of organisation last night was an absolute disgrace, no one had any idea what they were supposed to be doing.

We stood very little chance of getting anything out of the game at all, never mind going through, last night, so to shake up the team so radically and remove any organisation was just asking for trouble. We ended up getting beaten 3-1, and I think it's fair to say Barnsley didn't break in to a sweat, we made them look like a class act through our disorganisation.

We might still have the basis of a very good team next year - the likes of JD, Neil, JOC, AC and possibly TB, with potential cash to spend from RH and a good set of attendances this season, let's not ruin that by giving it to a manager with no track record who has made some very poor decisions.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 9:27 am

Leatherman wrote:
Mazza01 wrote:Despite a good season I can't help but feel dissapointed, we got it so wrong it's untrue from tactics to individual players personal performances.

No team should lose 6-1 over a to leg playoff!


Why?


Err, because the probability is very small, Tone?
Maybe someone else can confirm, but it seems that our 6-1 aggregate loss is the joint worst in all Div 1 playoffs. Not the greatest record to add to our longstanding Div 2 aggregate loss record.

It's been a memorable season though.

Can't help thinking that the clinical finishing of Bradshaw of last season, or even the early part of this season, would have seen us home and hosed weeks ago.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 9:35 am

Oh well.

Proud to be a saddler

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 11:16 am

moaning saddler wrote:
Leatherman wrote:
Mazza01 wrote:Despite a good season I can't help but feel dissapointed, we got it so wrong it's untrue from tactics to individual players personal performances.

No team should lose 6-1 over a to leg playoff!


Why?


Err, because the probability is very small, Tone?
Maybe someone else can confirm, but it seems that our 6-1 aggregate loss is the joint worst in all Div 1 playoffs. Not the greatest record to add to our longstanding Div 2 aggregate loss record.

It's been a memorable season though.

Can't help thinking that the clinical finishing of Bradshaw of last season, or even the early part of this season, would have seen us home and hosed weeks ago.


Because as a professional footballer you don't let it happen that's why!

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 1:55 pm

What a sad end to a great season but to be fair Barnsley better team in both legs.We were outthought, outplayed and outbattled Barnsley wanted it more than us and it showed we went out with a whimper not a bang.
I thought team was wrong last night and tactics, any neutral and tv viewers would have thought we were team with first leg lead and Barnsley had got to go for it the way we played.
Lots of huff and puff but never looked like hurting them.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 3:25 pm

Barnsley fan definitely in peace.

I'd just like to say that your fans and your team are a credit to the division and I'm sorry that we ended your hopes of promotion. Wish you had gone up instead of a very limited Burton side given the way you play fast exciting football and some of the talents you have.

Mixing with your fans in the No 7 on Saturday a warm friendly lot then welcomed into your social last night. A credit to you.

To be honest although the score was emphatic it was fine margins. The first half of the first leg was an even contest and then Winnall's 25 minute performance and some poor finishing sunk you. The second leg from that point was always going to be a struggle though again I thought you tested our defence well either side of half time when you were passing and moving well.

Sawyers who had been anonymous in the first leg wasuch better last night. I guess the performances of Bradshaw must have been a little disappointing as he failed to deliver anything in either leg and missed some good chances at crucial points. Also your defenders are a bit too nice and although Fletcher played well last night they certainly allowed him to do so.

Read some criticism of your manager on here which seems a bit harsh last night you had to have a go at us all tactics had been undone by that period either side of half time in the first leg. The problem he had with that is that we are excellent on the break and picked you off.

Hope your team isn't broken up too much and wish you success next season ( unless you are playing us).

Onwards and upwards

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 4:14 pm

Thanks JIMMY...it is good to hear from true fans of other clubs. As I said earlier if you hang on to your loan players or sign some equivalents you will do well. Your central defenders impressed me last night ...they were the biggest stumbling block to any revival we may have had. Good wishes to you too unless ,of course,you lose to Millwall and we meet again next year.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 5:55 pm

Outplayed twice by comfortably the best team I've seen this season. Gutted, but effort wasn't lacking last night, we were just inferior. I personally hope that Barnsley stuff the cockernee chav scum next weekend (cancelling the hotel rooms :( )

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 7:22 pm

An interesting comparison about last nights capitulation...........

Barnsley's No 10 and our own.
Both black (can I say that in these PC days?) tall gangling players but with excellent ball control.
Barnsley's, not afraid to tackle, got stuck in, always in and around the box, always ready to have a snap shot at goal and indeed did relentlessly..........................................going to Wembley.
Ours................was on the pitch, I think?...............going to the Caribbean.

Methinks the idea of a 'big money' transfer for the latter is a tad on the optimistic side.
Most likely to be a bench warmer/second string regular, at a Fulham or a Rotherham.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 7:27 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:An interesting comparison about last nights capitulation...........

Barnsley's No 10 and our own.
Both black (can I say that in these PC days?) tall gangling players but with excellent ball control.


Barnsley didn't have a number 10 last night - do you mean 18, Ash Fletcher ? If so, as a Manchester United player, you'd expect him to be good.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 7:34 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:An interesting comparison about last nights capitulation...........

Barnsley's No 10 and our own.
Both black (can I say that in these PC days?) tall gangling players but with excellent ball control.
Barnsley's, not afraid to tackle, got stuck in, always in and around the box, always ready to have a snap shot at goal and indeed did relentlessly..........................................going to Wembley.
Ours................was on the pitch, I think?...............going to the Caribbean.

Methinks the idea of a 'big money' transfer for the latter is a tad on the optimistic side.
Most likely to be a bench warmer/second string regular, at a Fulham or a Rotherham.


Sorry, I have always enjoyed reading some of your 'devil's advocate' posts but in what way has Sawyers' colour ( & Barnsley's number 10 ... I did not notice whether he was black or white) got to do with anything? I am not sure whether it has anything to do with PC but as a 64 year old white male I found it highly offensive.

If I had compared the contributions of our WHITE number 9 who sadly did not take the chances that came to him over the 2 legs with their WHITE number 9 who sadly did what on earth would you feel??

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 9:06 pm

ShropsSaddler wrote:I understand that emotion plays a major part in people's reaction to last night, but I hope some fans reflect on their comments this morning and are more reasonable.

Here's the bottom line - we were beaten by a better side in the end. A more physical side who pressed hard and stopped us playing. A side who were really on the up, whereas our team looked like one who had given their all for the season and finally run out of steam. But we gave it a good go last night and all those saying Whitney got the formation wrong are, I believe, completely incorrect. He knew they would give us no space by pressing, so he played a formation which allowed Henry to get forward, he played Mantom as an extra midfielder which meant that he did get on the ball much more in the middle of the park than any of our players did on Saturday, and he played two up front which is what people have been asking for.

So, whilst I concede we were beaten by the better team, the margins are not as great as you would believe. Sometimes it takes a ball to go in off a backside or a deflection to open up a game. Those breaks didn't go for us in either game. At Port Vale, everything we hit went flying into the top corner. Last night, and on Saturday, they went just wide or were mishit.

So now people start to say Whitney shouldn't get the job when, in his 12 games in charge, I understand he got us 25 points. Presumably these are the same fans who didn't want to give Dean Smith a chance as well? A chance to learn, a chance to get his own players in, a chance to address the weaknesses of the team. Am I 100% convinced by him? No. Do I absolutely believe he should be made manager and should be given time? Yes.

Despite the fact that fans are questioning his team selections, I'm really hoping that they are giving us an indication about the type of characters he wants at the club going forward. As much as I like Morris's desire to run at an opponent, there's a reason why 3 managers this season have not seen him as a regular starter. Same with Lalkovic, he does some fancy stuff but, at the end of the day, there's little end product and there's no desire at all to track back and help the team defend.

I'm really hoping that he gets the job and then gets some tougher players in, players who will put their body on the line when needs be and who can impose themselves physically on the game. That's what we lacked last night and on Saturday. Barnsley's front men consistently pushed, pulled and bullied our centre halves off the ball. Were they fouls? Yes. Were they given? No. So you have to hope that the defenders start giving as good as they get, but it was only in the second half that O'Connor finally did, Downing never did.

Anyway, positives out of the game;

Henry - despite the third goal, he was excellent at times, without having a good final product. That's to be expected at his age. But, perhaps most importantly of all, even at 3-1 down, he was battling, showing some pride and not resigned to the defeat. The lad will go far with that attitude.

Mantom - he's not got the ability of Sawyers but I thought he was excellent last night. All over the pitch, always willing to have the ball, always moving to receive it again, and he has the knack of making great runs into the box. A full season from him next year will be invaluable.

Cook - say what you like, the lad runs and he does have some skill, witnessed by that tremendous finish. Maybe we can get more from him?

Otherwise, it's a big close season, but if the right additions are made, then I believe it is entirely possible that, without Sawyers, we could (and I stress could) be a better team albeit with less gifted individuals. For goodness sake, get behind Whitney and give him a chance. He deserves nothing less.
Shrops - you talk a lot of sense. Some fine observations.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 9:24 pm

ShropsSaddler wrote:So now people start to say Whitney shouldn't get the job when, in his 12 games in charge, I understand he got us 25 points. Presumably these are the same fans who didn't want to give Dean Smith a chance as well? A chance to learn, a chance to get his own players in, a chance to address the weaknesses of the team. Am I 100% convinced by him? No. Do I absolutely believe he should be made manager and should be given time? Yes.

If he does get it permanently there will be unknowns - who does he release; does he know what positions need strengthening and what players will he bring in?
This last one is vital as you're stuck with dross for a season at least when it's relatively simple to fire the manager.
Smith seemed to suggest however that it wasn't him who decided who came in....
ShropsSaddler wrote:
Mantom - he's not got the ability of Sawyers but I thought he was excellent last night. All over the pitch, always willing to have the ball, always moving to receive it again, and he has the knack of making great runs into the box. A full season from him next year will be invaluable.

Agree
ShropsSaddler wrote:Cook - say what you like, the lad runs and he does have some skill, witnessed by that tremendous finish. Maybe we can get more from him?

Just as I was thinking "where the fudge is Cook he goes and scores. He may be happier at a lower level IMHO.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 10:27 pm

hullsaddler wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:An interesting comparison about last nights capitulation...........

Barnsley's No 10 and our own.
Both black (can I say that in these PC days?) tall gangling players but with excellent ball control.
Barnsley's, not afraid to tackle, got stuck in, always in and around the box, always ready to have a snap shot at goal and indeed did relentlessly..........................................going to Wembley.
Ours................was on the pitch, I think?...............going to the Caribbean.

Methinks the idea of a 'big money' transfer for the latter is a tad on the optimistic side.
Most likely to be a bench warmer/second string regular, at a Fulham or a Rotherham.


Sorry, I have always enjoyed reading some of your 'devil's advocate' posts but in what way has Sawyers' colour ( & Barnsley's number 10 ... I did not notice whether he was black or white) got to do with anything? I am not sure whether it has anything to do with PC but as a 64 year old white male I found it highly offensive.

If I had compared the contributions of our WHITE number 9 who sadly did not take the chances that came to him over the 2 legs with their WHITE number 9 who sadly did what on earth would you feel??


Not intending to 'offend' anyone, just comparing the two characters, the fact that they were both 'not white' (is that better?) and of similar build and stature. One was great, another was.......well, the enigma that is Sawyers, I think we will be a better team next season without him, as on some occasions he just makes up the numbers, and gives away too many disastrous flicks that go wrong. I know that many on here think he is the new Messiah but we need a 'good' goalscoring attack minded forward if we are to avoid a poor season next year.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 10:37 pm

At least he didn't describe them as coloured :wink:

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 10:47 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:An interesting comparison about last nights capitulation...........

Barnsley's No 10 and our own.
Both black (can I say that in these PC days?) tall gangling players but with excellent ball control.
Barnsley's, not afraid to tackle, got stuck in, always in and around the box, always ready to have a snap shot at goal and indeed did relentlessly..........................................going to Wembley.
Ours................was on the pitch, I think?...............going to the Caribbean.

Methinks the idea of a 'big money' transfer for the latter is a tad on the optimistic side.
Most likely to be a bench warmer/second string regular, at a Fulham or a Rotherham.


I think you've had too much Greek sun me owd mucker :D

There will be no transfer fee at all, never mind a big money one as Romaine is out of contract.

Also, you may have noticed that we avoided a poor season this time around with the non goal scoring midfielder that is Sawyers. Wonder why that was?

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Fri May 20, 2016 11:42 pm

Why compare Fletcher and Sawyers?

Just because someone is a 'number 10' it doesn't mean they play the same role. Some are midfield playmakers and some are deep lying forwards.

It's like comparing David Silva to Teddy Sheringham.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Sat May 21, 2016 10:13 am

AM ...I also found your post offensive but it was also totally wrong. Sawyers played well on Thursday and worked hard as well. Read the article on the "nonobheads " thread and try to understand the modern game. I am older than you but you really need to get into the 21st century.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Sat May 21, 2016 4:40 pm

Noticed that harry chapman's loan ran out on may 8th, are they allowed to extend a loan at that stage of the season? They used him as a sub! Or am i really clutching at straws! :D

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Sat May 21, 2016 5:43 pm

Walsallone wrote:AM ...I also found your post offensive but it was also totally wrong. Sawyers played well on Thursday and worked hard as well. Read the article on the "nonobheads " thread and try to understand the modern game. I am older than you but you really need to get into the 21st century.


Again, no offence was ever intended, folk of our age will have to get used to this '21st century' PC world eventually.
How old are you? you'd have to be a 2nd world war veteran to be older than me mate!
Still think you are wrong about Sawyers on Thursday, he was tired, uninterested, and drew back from more tackles than is usual, and had very little influence in a non existent, feeble attack. Not his fault entirely I suppose, Whitney's team choice was astonishingly poor, no Morris, no Forde (although not my fav), no Milan...no wingers, no attack, Henry was supposed to do it all on his own, I'm surprised he didn't end up de-hydrated and hospitalised from over exertion!

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Sat May 21, 2016 7:22 pm

sandysaddler wrote:Noticed that harry chapman's loan ran out on may 8th, are they allowed to extend a loan at that stage of the season? They used him as a sub! Or am i really clutching at straws! :D

They were allowed to extend it, which is ridiculous.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Mon May 23, 2016 9:33 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:
hullsaddler wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:An interesting comparison about last nights capitulation...........

Barnsley's No 10 and our own.
Both black (can I say that in these PC days?) tall gangling players but with excellent ball control.
Barnsley's, not afraid to tackle, got stuck in, always in and around the box, always ready to have a snap shot at goal and indeed did relentlessly..........................................going to Wembley.
Ours................was on the pitch, I think?...............going to the Caribbean.

Methinks the idea of a 'big money' transfer for the latter is a tad on the optimistic side.
Most likely to be a bench warmer/second string regular, at a Fulham or a Rotherham.


Sorry, I have always enjoyed reading some of your 'devil's advocate' posts but in what way has Sawyers' colour ( & Barnsley's number 10 ... I did not notice whether he was black or white) got to do with anything? I am not sure whether it has anything to do with PC but as a 64 year old white male I found it highly offensive.

If I had compared the contributions of our WHITE number 9 who sadly did not take the chances that came to him over the 2 legs with their WHITE number 9 who sadly did what on earth would you feel??


Not intending to 'offend' anyone, just comparing the two characters, the fact that they were both 'not white' (is that better?) and of similar build and stature. One was great, another was.......well, the enigma that is Sawyers, I think we will be a better team next season without him, as on some occasions he just makes up the numbers, and gives away too many disastrous flicks that go wrong. I know that many on here think he is the new Messiah but we need a 'good' goalscoring attack minded forward if we are to avoid a poor season next year.


Was it 4 or 5 decent goal scoring chances Romaine created over the two legs that we didn't score from? I can't remember.

I Guess it's his fault for not getting on the end of his own through balls though.

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Re: Barnsley (H) Play-offs 2nd leg, Thurs 19th May 7.45pm

Wed May 25, 2016 7:32 pm

ShropsSaddler wrote:I understand that emotion plays a major part in people's reaction to last night, but I hope some fans reflect on their comments this morning and are more reasonable.

Here's the bottom line - we were beaten by a better side in the end. A more physical side who pressed hard and stopped us playing. A side who were really on the up, whereas our team looked like one who had given their all for the season and finally run out of steam. But we gave it a good go last night and all those saying Whitney got the formation wrong are, I believe, completely incorrect. He knew they would give us no space by pressing, so he played a formation which allowed Henry to get forward, he played Mantom as an extra midfielder which meant that he did get on the ball much more in the middle of the park than any of our players did on Saturday, and he played two up front which is what people have been asking for.

So, whilst I concede we were beaten by the better team, the margins are not as great as you would believe. Sometimes it takes a ball to go in off a backside or a deflection to open up a game. Those breaks didn't go for us in either game. At Port Vale, everything we hit went flying into the top corner. Last night, and on Saturday, they went just wide or were mishit.

So now people start to say Whitney shouldn't get the job when, in his 12 games in charge, I understand he got us 25 points. Presumably these are the same fans who didn't want to give Dean Smith a chance as well? A chance to learn, a chance to get his own players in, a chance to address the weaknesses of the team. Am I 100% convinced by him? No. Do I absolutely believe he should be made manager and should be given time? Yes.

Despite the fact that fans are questioning his team selections, I'm really hoping that they are giving us an indication about the type of characters he wants at the club going forward. As much as I like Morris's desire to run at an opponent, there's a reason why 3 managers this season have not seen him as a regular starter. Same with Lalkovic, he does some fancy stuff but, at the end of the day, there's little end product and there's no desire at all to track back and help the team defend.

I'm really hoping that he gets the job and then gets some tougher players in, players who will put their body on the line when needs be and who can impose themselves physically on the game. That's what we lacked last night and on Saturday. Barnsley's front men consistently pushed, pulled and bullied our centre halves off the ball. Were they fouls? Yes. Were they given? No. So you have to hope that the defenders start giving as good as they get, but it was only in the second half that O'Connor finally did, Downing never did.

Anyway, positives out of the game;

Henry - despite the third goal, he was excellent at times, without having a good final product. That's to be expected at his age. But, perhaps most importantly of all, even at 3-1 down, he was battling, showing some pride and not resigned to the defeat. The lad will go far with that attitude.

Mantom - he's not got the ability of Sawyers but I thought he was excellent last night. All over the pitch, always willing to have the ball, always moving to receive it again, and he has the knack of making great runs into the box. A full season from him next year will be invaluable.

Cook - say what you like, the lad runs and he does have some skill, witnessed by that tremendous finish. Maybe we can get more from him?

Otherwise, it's a big close season, but if the right additions are made, then I believe it is entirely possible that, without Sawyers, we could (and I stress could) be a better team albeit with less gifted individuals. For goodness sake, get behind Whitney and give him a chance. He deserves nothing less.



F..k Sake somebody out there who actually got some sense ‘ShropsSaddler’ well done very good observation points you made which I totally agree with, the right formation and team selection was correct. I do also hope Whit gets the job.

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