Dean Keates: Players to pay for Walsall slump on training ground

#1

Ok https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/walsall-fc/2019/02/19/dean-keates-players-to-pay-for-walsall-slump-on-training-ground/

When I was at school in the 1960’s they thought this was ok to bully on playing field.
It can’t be ok now ?? Or can it?
This is bullying and blaming individuals stinks !!!

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#2

How long does it take to tell the players to hoof it to cook

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#3

It’s all right, lads. I’ve got a plan…

The-Italian-Job-1969-7

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#4

Well it isn’t.
It’s getting players in on their day off and making them do a days work not half a days work.

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#5

Looks like he is desperately clutching at straws trying to find any way of getting the players to play for him and if this doesnt work has got to surely be the last throw of the dice for him. Whilst not being privy to all thats said and going on behind the scenes, he seems to be totally clueless where tactics, changes, togetherness, organisation, respect, and inspirational man management skills are concerned and not forgetting most are players who he has signed so you would think there was some kind of affinity there at some stage.
Managing any business is about getting the most out of your staff, making them wanting to give you there all, and generally results on the field reflect that.
Sadly to me Dean has been shown to be a “L” plate manager with so much to learn, may or may not learn from his mistakes and come again but at the moment looks like he is way out of his depth.

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#6

Dean hasn’t helped himself by signing so many challenging characters , Zeli and Ferrier to name just two.

The squad was screaming out for some old heads to come in and potentially help him with any dressing room issues.

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#7

But again why did Keates sign Zeli , Osbourne and Laird ??

I seriously believe the club are telling who he can sign.

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#8

I would think there is only a very small pool of players who are prepared to come to the club at the moment. This might explain why the same old dross keeps reappearing.

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#9

He’s signing those few players who will consider Walsall as a career choice. We are the football equivalent of a roadworks gang, without the qualifications, thanks to our owner being a total tight arse.

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#10

“Sticks to the same plan” - FFS Can’t he see it’s not working! Get those lazy sods working!

“Increases work load” - Bully! Clueless! Doesn’t believe his own methods!

:man_shrugging::man_shrugging::man_shrugging: We’re in Whitney territory of “can do no right” now I’m afraid.

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#11

Are we? If so, we’re in the territory of when he also lost it a bit towards the end and was sending out too many messages instead of sticking to what he knew worked.

That’s the point of the comparisons we make with Smith surely? Nobody expects keates, or Whitney before him, to be that good but they should look and learn that if you believe in a method and a style, stick to it come what may and things come good. I think most players need consistency of approach. As graydon and nichol both said, footballers are very simple beings and you need to make it easy for them

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#12

That’s right. You get into that territory when it appears that you can indeed, do no right.

And when you’re in that territory you can say no right either. I’m not sure what our contractual media obligations are, but he’s best just not talking just now.

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#13

I don’t think it’s the same.

Whitney was below par, but kept registering vital points - which was part of the reason people were getting so frustrated, there never seemed to be a pivotal set of results that condemned him until the very end.

I defended him against some bizarre accusations, notably his often willfully misinterpreted press comments, his use of grammar and various other alleged absurd atrocities.

This is different because whereas Whitney’s team was stuttering and sputtering for much of the time, the results now are in free-fall.

People were very jaded with the style and drudgery of Whitney’s team at the end of his tenure, his plan-A approach and his lack of tactical awareness. This is different because Keates still hasn’t really got an effective plan-A, he still cannot decide on a first eleven and his style is brutal in the extreme. His tactical incompetence makes Whitney look quite streetwise. He’s basically so far out of his depth that it’s only his residual Walsall status that is protecting him from the torrent of abuse Whitney had to contend with.

So it is different, in my view. Markedly so.

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#14

He has to do them or he gets fined. And even then he’d be criticised for not speaking to the fans :man_shrugging:

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#15

I’m not comparing their performance, there’s literally no point.

I’m comparing the reception of their comments. There was largely nothing wrong with what Whitney said save a few controversial comments. There’s nothing wrong with what Keates is saying here. But here we are.

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#16

Do we? I don’t make those comparisons. They are utterly pointless.

Ah so keep the same approach that hasn’t worked for 5-6 months?

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#17

I have to agree here, he is floundering. For me three things are keeping him here:

  • His status as a player
  • The promising start, carried over from last season’s escape
  • Jeff’s reluctance to pay compensation

Jeff probably still has nightmares about Kevan Broadhurst, which is the last time he faced this scenario. However, 13 from 63 is horrifying. It’s the sort of form that could take us to the bottom of D4, let alone D3. We could fall straight through unless something quite marked occurs.

You might say this is exaggeration, but consider this:

  • We get relegated in dismal fashion
  • Keates is dismissed, we have to scrat round for someone else
  • A new manager has to release / sell everyone over 24
  • Loanees all return to their parent clubs

Cook is the only valuable asset and Kinsella will walk. Dobson may well be sold too. We have to start again with the klids and anyone who can form a spine. That puts an awful lot of pressure on those players who will be the spine of the team. If we get that spine wrong, we’re in big trouble and bumming around with Port Vale.

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#18

I’m not sold on the impact of training on players. I see it as fitness and the gentle improvement of skills overtime. Never witnessed a session that transfers directly to huge advancements on the next matchday. We’ll be no different this week.

That all typed, with the squads’ background of players largely from amateur sport I would suggest an emphasis on practical drills and set-ups would have much more of an impact on their performance than PowerPoint presentations, constant meetings, debriefs and post-mortems.

They need to digest instructions by osmosis. It needs to become physical habit not words to be followed. Effectively they need to do what you tell them, without you needing to tell them. If you get the occasional genius, you can explain to them, but don’t waste your time telling everyone, it will be in one ear and Nandos the other.

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#19

Wouldn’t mind a cheeky one. :hatched_chick:

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#20

Performance has a direct impact on how manager is judged and is critical to fan reaction I would suggest, so it can hardly be dismissed out of hand. It would also correlate into the kind of comments they’re likely to get - ie ‘This manger’s ace’ or ‘He’s bloody hopeless’.

Some of the comments Keates has aired betray a level of naivety and when assessed with the appalling series of results we’re having to endure it’s difficult not to come to the conclusion that he’s out of his depth.

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