To be fair Bates had a really poor spell before he was dropped if i remember. He probably needed it, although as you point out probably not for as long.
Very disappointed about CCM, i really liked him before he got his injury, solid enough for this level. Now seemingly out of the picture all together.
I agree its a travesty we don’t bring more players through, the club should be looking to bring 2 or 3 a season through at least.
I can’t agree with that at all. I thought he was one of our better players at that point. And even if I did agree, fine if he was dropped to the bench. He wasn’t even in squads. How does that develop anyone?
And before that I remember games where Guthrie and Sinclair were having shockers and he was sat on the bench. Macclesfield at home springs to mind where we scraped a draw thanks to Wes against a team that hadn’t been paid, played or trained for two weeks in protest and Guthrie was ■■■■■■■ woeful. Bates was an unused substitute.
I still think there is a player there but in fairness Melbourne looks decent. I can’t see him getting any more opportunities in a Walsall Shirt.
I’m not sure i agree Bates had a stunted development, i think of all the crap stuff DC has served up he’s done a decent job with Bates. He was removed from a struggling side getting pelters and i think he wanted experience in there, rightly or wrongly.
I don’t disagree on the other points, and id much rather someone like Perry was given minutes rather than wheeling out the extremely underwhelming Osadebe for 5 mins every week.
I think CCM needs a proper run and then a decision can be made. Rather than being played at left centre back and getting criticised publically by his own Manager, whilst Clarke, Sinclair and formerly Guthrie seemingly can be as poor as poor can be, yet not a murmur from their mate DC.
Hard to understand how the previously mentioned Sinclair has commanded even a place on the bench, whilst Perry seems almost put into complete isolation.
That’s until you remember one of them is the Managers’ “mate” and the other one isn’t.
Fair enough and judging level of performance is subjective anyway. I probably disagreed with the people giving him pelters at the time so it is what it is.
But surely the answer wasn’t to take him out of the match day squad all together? For me, he’s gone down hill ever since, I really can’t see how DC has developed him at all.
I think he looks a more solid all round player now for me, especially in the tackle.
I think when he burst onto the scene we were crying out for a number ten, but i dont really see him being that type of player.
I think all our midfielders would improve by not playing 442, but that’s flavour of the day again now…
That is true, he is stronger in the tackle to be fair.
But I think he’s lost a lot of confidence in his passing and creativity. I watched him in a JPT game a year or so ago and he was more of a play maker and ran the show to be fair. He was a livewire buzzing around picking up the ball and trying to create something or break forward.
And that kind of sums DC up. Pragmatism all the time. It’s like hes been told “sit, be solid, concentrate on winning the ball back for us”. All great stuff. But not when you are sitting next to Liam Kinsella who does the exact same job, and you have Sinclair on the bench who does the exact same job. We play with 7 defensive players now, including Bates and hope the wingers and strikers do something out of nothing. It’s the DC way. @P.T was spot on.
To me this seemed Bates’ natural way of playing when he broke into the team but as el nombre and PT highlight he is being stifled by DC’s ultra pragmatic approach.
I can’t remember when Kinsella or Sinclair played a ball forward of more than a few yards, let alone attempted a killer pass near the opposition box. Yes, there are times to keep possession but if all the midfield do is pass it backwards to the back 4 then it’s no wonder the back 4 then have to hoof it upfield a lot of the time.
Yes I know Bates he gave the ball away for the Mansfield goal on but surely it’s a factor in why Bates does give the ball away as part of his more natural game is to look for a more forward pass (e.g Adebayo’s first goal at Vale) but usually a) it isn’t on that often due to a lack of movement up front or b) he is too far away from the front 4 as part of that more defensive midfield 2 set up.
Assuming Clarke is unwilling to give Perry a chance (yet) and he is fully fit, maybe he would benefit from going out on loan somewhere if that’s possible to see exactly what level he is at?
No he is not a Bates clone , he can actually head the ball for a start
Bates when he first came into the team always seemed to be on the front foot and at times looked as though he was the only one who wanted to push us forward into more attacking positions.
Now like many others he seems to have stalled in his progress and that has to mainly be due to DC his poor coaches his tactics and worrying to much about the oppositions strengths instead of improving his own players and giving them a style of play that puts us on the front foot.
Couldn’t agree more. We constantly seem to be set up as a reaction to the opposition and their supposed strengths regardless of their actual quality rather than seeking to impose ourselves on the game. Oh for more games like Tranmere when we actually played in a dominant fashion. Most of our wins seem to have come from containing and then eking out something when we do attack. As we no longer have Elijah upfront to feed off the scraps this will be harder unless these new loanees (& Wright looks vg) can provide a missing spark.
I would be playing Bates further up the pitch which is where he made an impact last season and put someone else deeper. If that’s Perry so much the better, because having a midfield of Perry, Kinsella and Bates would unlikely make us any worse than we currently are. It would have the added “benefit”, if successful, of them becoming more saleable commodities and making them ripe for being picked up by the emerging force that is Accrington.
I would need to think again about the make up of midfield once Holden is available again.
Once Holden is back, an attacking three behind a striker (Gordon) in a 4231 of Wright, Holden and McDonald excites me.
Hopefully by the time we get playing again, we have a fully fit side to choose from, the likes of Holden, Clarke, Rose etc all improve us on paper and the times we’ve had a fully fit team this season, we’ve got on unbeaten runs.
I agree with that formation. Needs Clarke to be braver and revert from trying not to lose games to trying to win them.
It also confirms Bates as more of a holder and spoiler than a creator. Which is somewhat of a shame.
I just wished DC would pick our strongest team and play a formation that we are good at and stay with it week in week out , stop worrying about what the opposition may or may not do and just play to win games , not try to contain and neutralise the competition.
We are good at not winning
He certainly should’ve got many more minutes coming off the bench this season and the odd start.
Not great logic or long term planning when Guthrie and Sinclair have both played much more and one has already been released and the other will be in four months.
I wouldn’t say though DC has some hatred of young players though. Alfie Bates was in Perry’s position two years ago on the fringes and in last 12 months has been a regular starter.
CCM also started games here and there at left back but let’s be honest he’s not that good and his career will probably go same way as a Reece Flanagan.
With Perry that’s about it for promising young players isn’t it compared to the amount that came through in the 2012-15 period when you could nearly put a first team out of them.
From the extremely limited occasions that I’ve seen Leak, Campbell, Foulkes and Willis, they all seem reasonable prospects, especially Willis.
Tom Leak will be 21 pretty much start of next season. Loaned out to Salisbury in 19/20 but nothing since. Willis coming up to 20 aswell so they need to be at least on the bench now.
Hard to believe but Rico Henry had only just turned 18 at start of 15/16 but guess he was exceptional talent. Jamie Paterson started regularly playing at 19 at start of 2011 season. Alfie Bates is still 19 himself so concern to me when young players don’t play much until they’re past 20 unless it’s felt they’ve physically not yet ready.
Totally agree, lads in their 20’s should have been able to come into a League 2 team-in an appalling League 2-and contributed. These lads are a million miles off.
However you mention Patterson and he was nowhere near the 1st team until Smith took over.
So is it the lads in question- or the misjudgment of DC?