Whatever your smoking can I have some ?
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It’s all conjecture, including your theory - I have no problem with it - it’s what this forum is here for. If they had always been open and honest in the dealings at Walsall FC they wouldn’t be open to any of this speculation, would they?! They bring it on themselves.
And lets not forget, Bonser has form of putting puppets in the chairmans seat, the appointment of Mike Lloyd was more of a joke than Dmitry Medvedev holding office in Russia until Putin could return. So, lets not be too harsh on our fans here, I completely understand the speculation. Some of us are far from ready to let the ruination of our club over the last 10 - 15 years rest, and not taking things at face value is a byproduct of the continual clouding of figures and ducking and diving in the boardroom.
LP has made some baffling decisions since his arrival - no, in fact its the lack of any decisions that is the problem. If it had of been a fresh pair eyes it would look very different. That’s all I’m saying.
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nothing much has changed for the better I can agree with that and let’s not forget we are in a Lower division.
I do and I like him but at what cost has he incurred getting the club from Bonser ? A high one it seems If we can’t compete financially at this level.
Geordie as ever spot on, actually needs to write a book. 
Forgive me Killer but don’t think anyone has forgotten we’re in a lower league 
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250k then is equivalent of 484k today. A bit over a year’s rent. So if he sells at 7 million that is 14 times the value of his original investment.
Your point is immaterial I had already stated what he done was not illegal. But imorale in every sense
I say it again club was borrowing its own money end of, And again why not want it back and let it stay on books for so long, , just taking small amounts from it untill his departure, when there had been ample opportunity to have it repaid years previously
As said the mind boggles it REALY does. , when people think it was from his own personel fourtune and I’d also add no one picks on me I can assure you of that fact
A difference of ppinion yes And healthy debate. Again yes, But as for picking on me. Come try it sometime Phil. And we can have a debate over it. Face to face ,
It’s sad to see how some fans on here ( small majority may I add ). Try to talk down to there fellow fan and belittle certain posters. While hiding behind. A false identity, , sorry that’s not my style at all, I can accept people rubbishing what I post as that is there right,
But strange thing is both club and bonser see everything on here, make no mistake about that, Yet have never. Challenged or had me threatened with any sort of action, legal or otherwise And there is a reason for that. Phil, the reason is you can’t be jailed for telling the truth , as said everyone on here knows who I am , as I made it clear who was behind the Dh forever posts, from day one, I respect everyone ,s oppinion, but if I don’t agree. Do not try to cause offence or belittle them, a trait many could learn from
Again. I know I’m the butt of many peoples jokes in relation to spelling etc,
Firs to admit I did no schooling , wouldn’t have a bar of it, to busy travelling the country watching wfc
, but went on to. Have three hugely success full buisneses that allowed me to retire at 50
That information is not to be big headed. It’s just another true fact , and to let you know I’m far from the fool you try to portray me as
Again I’ll state openly club was borrowing its own self generated cash in the forms of loans, Illegal no. Imorale very much so, Hope you are reading aunty jef ,
I await to hear from your legal team. If you. Disagree with my Oppinion , or if you wish to sit down again and put your version over. I’m quite willing. To again Sit with you. And ask the questions many loyal fans want answering
Ps sorry for any spelling mistakes
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I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.
It wasn’t accruing interest whilst on the books?
It’s a kind of chicken-and-the-egg situation. We couldn’t borrow £2m to keep the club running because we have no asset, and the bloke who caused us to have no asset was the one providing the loan.
What caused what?
With the land under club control, would we have needed loans? Possibly, possibly not.
I’m sure they don’t, I’m just making the point that lots of what you post isn’t strictly true, and I don’t think it really helps matters.
Not talking down to you - just having to point out, over and over again, that some stuff just isn’t true.
You simply can’t state that as fact. From 2008 onwards the landlord in the eyes of the law was Suffolk Life, the provider of the loans was Jeffrey Bonser. He was also a beneficiary of the Suffolk Life SIPP, but the funds he lent to the club were from his personal funds, on which he will have paid income tax.
I see the point you’re trying to make, and in essence, it is probably about right, but it’s not strictly true is it? The rent is paid in order to have by far our biggest asset on our books, which in turn is all tied up in the balance sheet and our profitability, and the loans were interest free anyway. And how does it help now? We all know JB screwed the club, and still is.
Don’t forget, that during the last 15-20 years, there’s also been substantial loans from other board members who weren’t beneficiaries of rent.
Personally, I’ve said this a dozen times or more, I don’t think Jeff intended things to get quite this bad. He was greedy - yes, but with the increase in land prices in the early 00s coupled with the exponential growth in spending in football during the same period, Jeff had backed himself in to a corner that he didn’t know how to get out of, tempered by the greed of keeping the rent flowing.
In all honesty, he should have acted in 2009/10 to secure the land for the club, and given himself 10 years to untangle the mess. What happened 2010-2020 was just one massive shrug of the shoulders.
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By his own admission all the loans where buy the means of drawing down into his pension fund, , stating at some time they had to be paid back, and not from his own personal wealth,as you state
Stating that he could set the rate of interes it was to be paid back at, just as. He could impose rent freezes /increases ,as and when. but chose to leave rent at below its true market rental value, in order to help club
Because it was his pension fund. And it allowed him to do such things and was the easiest option for him to loan club money. Via his pension pot,
His words not mine
So again by bonsers own admission. Of where loans came from , it’s a case of what you say not being strictly true is it, , and St end of day seeing it was club who where constantly. Contributing to his pension pot , was indeed a case of wfc borrowing there own self generated cash, rather than it being out of the kind hearted actions of our so called saviour. Just popping down to Barclays and. Loaning the club s few quid out of his current account was it
Whatever round about way it was done I stand by my statement. Club. Owed a debt. It should never have had to borrowed in first place , And there’s only one person to blame for that
Seeing as we both have different viewpoints best just to agree to disagree on some points, as it clear we both hold same view as how. He got the club and himself into a sittuation that , benefitted only one party, And brought wfc to its knees ,
The whole move to Bescot has just been one long term con. We paid for the sodding thing to be built and paid rent for the right to use the damn thing for decades ever since. The whole place has always been set up for the benefit of a few at the expense of the football club itself.
Absolute shitshow, and done in such a way that the media have never really picked up on it and just gone along with the ‘well run club’ rubbish. Its not a well run club and hasn’t been for years, its a well run investment project.
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I don’t agree.
You are taking what Jeff said about improvements to the ground, and assuming that the same was done for the loans which Jeff used to prop up the club.
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No I’m not and as said we will have to agree to disagree I know what he said and what he’s told me on more than one occasion. The reasons. Why he used his pension fund. To facilitate. Said loans
Spot on. A plan that was executed to perfection. , and one that was detrimental to Walsall FC from day one
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Fine, but if you’re right then the club have committed fraud by not stating this in the accounts.
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Good post PHIL…your last but one paragraph is in my view is spot on. The guy you are arguing with won’t accept facts when they don’t suite his argument. I also agree with your last paragraph but then you and I and one or two others have been pointing out for years how difficult the position is to sort out. It is one of the reasons I feel some of the stuff written about LP is so misguided. He has a big job on his hands simply to reunite the land and the Club. I believe him when he says he will do it and I think we should support him in that endeavour.
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You are talking about a guy who states he had to put his own home up for security against a loan he had to take out to purchase club,min first place,
He was not a mega rich man when he came to club, but did have many.small comercial Properties invested into his pension fund which he set up in 1976 alongside his brother rob ,to which they have gadded numerous others since
He was in a position of being asset rich but cash poor, hence him putting his home at stake when first coming to club
Yet you are trying to say just a few short years later he was is position to pump two million of funds into club from his own wealth. Highly unlikely, The only way he could raise such funds would have been via his pension fund
I’ll accept them if proven to be true, and I don’t see arguments, just an exchange of views and opinions , but guess that doesn’t suit your narrative
Only one man knows the truth and how it was done, Infact I’ll re phrase that only two men know, with the other one still playing major role at club
But I can only state what bonser himself has stated. And believe it to be the truth, Unless you are suggesting he does not tell the truth ?
I’m saying nothing of the sort, and you’ve just proven my point for me. He has/had other investments, and presumably other incomes. Therefore you can’t state that the money for the loans to prop up the club was directly from the pension fund.
You’re stating that the loans JB made to the club were effectively recycling (i.e laundering) rent money back in to the club, that’s illegal.
You’re also confusing the fact that he’s stated over the years that certain improvements to the ground have been made using funds from the pension fund. This is perfectly normal, after all, the pension fund effectively owns the ground, and has been the beneficiary of the rent, so it’s a capital investment to increase that rental yield. These investments not only increased the rent we pay, but also the value of the asset on our books.
It’s all semantic really, but the stuff you’re implying gets in to the realm of fraud.
You go try charge a company £400k a year for something (having it appear on as a business cost), then pay it back in to the club. Mr HMRC would come knocking before you could say “corporation tax fraud”
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Anyone giving LP any ■■■■ you need to give your head a wobble.
We’re still renting the ground from JB,
he’s not mega rich.
He is going to reunite the ground with the club, this will take time
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Never said lease was not normal, it’s quite normal for commercial properties to have a clause stating that the ten net. Is fully responsible for maintaining the fabric and structure of the building at all times
Never said he has done anything illegal, Or implied he has. It’s not illegal for him to draw into his fund and loan club money , far from it
But being owner /landlord, and doing such things is imorale in every sense of the word , especially when it is for improvements. To which only one person will ultimately benefit from but that is not what this debate is over
I truly believe club was put in a position of borrowing self generated cash for whatever reason or from. Wherever it came from
If you truly believe he. Had a spare two million lying round to as you imply to bail club out shortly after. He took over, ( which he states was caused by the demise of itv digital ). I respect your oppinion. But not one I agree. With