To be fair aren’t these accounts only till May last year, so only a couple of months into the pandemic?
Yes …I suspect this year’s accounts will tell a different story.
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I seem to remember this happening at some point in the last few years too. We posted a small profit (under £20k) but it turned out we’d also been loaned more than that… possibly from Bonser. So it looked like it had been done to avoid announcing we’d made a loss.
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I’ve always found it laughable that the stadium and training ground are not depreciated at all. The argument is that the stadium and training ground are maintained to such a level that their value does not diminish. How they square that up with fans having to walk through rivers of p1ss because they couldnt be be bothered to fix the bogs and the training ground repeatedly floods is beyond me.
If the assets were depreciated reasonably we would be making an accounting (not cash) loss each year of over £100K.
When we do eventually go bust it will be interesting to see if we can get over £6million from the scrap metal man for the stadium to pay off the debts considering we dont actually own anything. Pomlett much be hoping he can sell the Club on to another mug before that happens!
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If that was the case it was unfair criticism. Taking out a loan does not boost your turnover or profit.
If we were making a loss, then took out a loan, we’d still make a loss.
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Yes but we still lost a few hundred thousand.
Not really, the property is treated accurately. Property and Land very rarely fits a depreciation method (which in fairness is a guess most of the time anyway). You can’t depreciate it on a straight line because land will never be worth zero. You can’t depreciate it reducing the balance because it doesn’t lose value depending on events even through one year. The value can fluctuate too based on a number of factors, compared to say Plant or Motor Vehicles.
The fact fans have to walk through rivers of ■■■■ has nothing to do with it. That just means the correct expenses haven’t been made on repairs and renewals. It wouldn’t depreciate any more or less if you didn’t do those things (unless you are arguing we’d produce enough ■■■■ to at some point render the land useless for anything). Even without sorting that out though, the property, and land it sits on, is still worth the same amount of money. For example, your car could have a broken wing mirror and wouldn’t pass it’s MOT, but it wouldn’t depreciate any more or less than the method you choose to use. The expenditure to fix those things would come into your profit and loss for the year.
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I’ve engaged firms like Deloitte, EY, PwC, and KPMG so the (!) was used as surprise at how cheap that fee is compared to the bloodsuckers I deal with. Sorry about that.
WFC audit fees have been £6k pa since the mid-1990s (!!!) - that must be some kind of record.
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Ohhh my mistake. Yeah that is very cheap. Must have something to do with the kudos linked with a professional football club or we made a really good deal. There’s probably Walsall fans out there that could only really name you Dains if you asked them to name an accountancy firm purely through our link with them, that is my guess.
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Cullys is the one that instantly comes to mind with me.
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Thanks for the accounting lesson El-Nombre - those that know me might tell you what I do for a living!!
I dont disagree with anything you say and am not saying the accounts are wrong or have not been drawn up in accordance with GAA Standards. There is however a certain amount of commercial reality that may come in to play regarding the value of the property (the Club doesnt own the Land it sits on). Perhaps the Club should get the property and training ground properly valued by a RICS registered person and we would see if there was £6m of assets there even on an existing use basis. I doubt it somehow.
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Mr Gamble is a fully qualified Chartered Certified Accountant and so I assume that he provides them with a complete set of accounts to audit which should save some money on the Audit.
I assume we dont give them cheap sponsorship/shirt sponsorship deals on the Stand/Kit etc to make up for it!!
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I’m not having a dig at what you are or what you do, but I’m sure there are people here that don’t have that knowledge so to say “If the assets were depreciated reasonably we would be making an accounting (not cash) loss each year of over £100K” well that is pretty misleading because they are depreciated 100 percent reasonably.
Well that is where I am out of my depth. As I am sure you are aware, it’s not an accountants job to judge the value of a property, whether its a commercial reality or not. I’m just pointing out having ■■■■ on the floor would have zero impact on your accounts and what you show as a profit or loss each year, again, as I am sure you are no doubt aware.
Every audit should have that really, otherwise it is a conflict of interest. If the accountant is drawing up the accounts themselves to be audited themselves then there’s an incentive not to disclose any errors. It’s still cheap.
And I didn’t suggest they do get cheap sponsorship out of it. I said kudos and talked about the exposure they get. What other industry has it’s accounts viewed by hundreds of customers because they have a vested interest in the company and know the auditors of said company? I can’t think of any but look at us, here now, talking about Dains.
Philthesaddler:
Ironically, it’s the stadium that keeps us from being insolvent, because it’s value is added to the clubs total assets, but at the same time, it’s the long-term costs of renting the stadium that mean the club cannot make significant capital investment (like buying players, or handing out longer term contracts).
That’s a good point, Phil.
We all thought LP was our savior when he purchased the club, only to find out he has less money than Bonser.
Our club desperately needs an owner who has the money to buy the club and freehold, pay the outstanding debts and is willing to put his money into the club to ensure, not only it’s survival, but to get us Championship level football.
That’s not going to be someone with just couple million, we need a person(s) to heavily invest.
I’m not saying those people don’t exist, we know they do, they haven’t knocked on our door yet!
and I doubt one ever will!! We had our “saviour” in the late eighties and we all know how that turned out and I doubt another one will come along. Our future ,if we have one, is as a community club and I hope as time goes by LP will do all he can to build up our links with the community in and around the West Midlands.After all we are the only English owned League Club in the area.
You could be on to something there - a marketing campaign based on “local”.
Local club.
Local ownership.
Local players (pushing it a bit).
Local sponsorship.
Local beer.
Local food.
Local (cheap as chips) auditors.
Local coppers to kick the living daylights out of the away fans.
Etc, etc.
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Some good points there…it could work if we got a decent team playing good attacking football.
What’s the point of making a 25k profit when you are playing Boreham Wood in front of 2k.
I await Cully’s considered input and expect this to be pulled apart as the usual game of smoke, mirrors, and bullshit that we come to expect at this time every year. It’s just like an inverted Christmas!
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You could add:
Local anesthetic for the numbing of our pain
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