He doesn’t although he’s better on the ball than many give him credit for, just not in an attacking sense.
He’d play the cover role while they have the ball breaking up play and sit while we have it in preparation for winning it back and rotate out the way to allow the other two to get on the ball when we have it playing out!
Smith infuriated many fans by continually sticking up for and defending his players I seem to remember.
You can say he never lost a dressing room though.
Smith made some pretty guff players who cost a pittance better though, that was the difference.
But how often does Kinsella actually do that?
A big part of being able to break up play as a sitting midfielder is discipline and positional play in sensing danger. IMO Kinsella simply doesn’t read a game well enough, and certainly not well enough for a player with 200+ League appearances.
He didn’t sense the danger today (from Morris, a player he has played/trained with for around 5 years) to close down, show him onto his wrong foot etc.
If it’s an either/or then Comley for me, while not being great by any means, is more disciplined in that sitting midfielder role.
Yep Featherstone played well at times in the 3 with Chambers and Mantom. Since he left he’s floated around non league/bottom of league 2 with Hartlepool.
Edit; When you think about it Nicky was probably the Kinsella in the Smith fulcrum but DS made sure he only did things he was capable of so he was the one who’d just be told to quickly switch play and keep possession.
Ben Purkiss was solid squad player in backline for two seasons, think he was picked up after being relegated from the league with Hereford.
That’s two who fitted well into the system DS played but never hit same heights after leaving.
Incredible when you think of some of the 11s that were put out and fans were constantly bashing him for never getting into top 6 before 15/16. 
Now it’s a case of players coming into Walsall and having some of the worst spells of their career, Andy Williams has always been a prolific lower league scorer, now he’s the second coming of Andy Barrowman seemingly.
I know people won’t accept the stats but quite simply, Kinsella has more interceptions than any other midfield player and more free ball pick ups than any other midfield player. He’s also made more tackles than any other player in the squad.
Today alone he made more interceptions than any other player on the pitch. He does read the game.
Honestly I really don’t get the hate. I mean I understand we all see it differently and most can’t see why I dont rate Knowles but Kinsella does something no other player in our squad does.
Agree.
The hate for Kinsella serves just one purpose. It makes it easy to recognise those whose opinions about players can be safely ignored.
How long did it take before Smith realised Featherstone and Chambers kept getting in eachother way? It was a while.
Featherstone flourished when he was told to literally just take the ball off the keeper and pass it on.
Tbh I don’t think Kinsella is comparable in styles but I see your point. I still think he’s the best option over Comley. Comley is dog muck. He brings nothing to the side.
Well so he should have, that is why he is in there.
He didnt when it really mattered today.
I don’t hate Kinsella at all. I was simply making a case why I don’t think he is as good in the sitting midfielder role as others do, and was giving reasons why.
That’s not “hate”, it’s just opinion.
Which brings me back to the point about Flynn, signed a load of players and then now trying to make them fit. Smith always signed players for a system rather than who they were.
We have done this since Smith left, Whitney did it, Clarke did it, Fullarton did it. Or they did sign em for a set way of playing and then abandoned it fast. The 352 springs to mind. Its infuriating.
Exactly.
I’ve been making this case for 3/4 years now.
He is not a pivot or holding midfielder - never will be. He is not good enough positionally, or in terms of reading the game. What he is good at… is interceptions and tackling - sure.
However, we do not play a high pressing game - which renders his role basically ineffective. If we did press, then he would be perfect for that role as one of the midfield 3. But he isn’t. He’s a disaster as the holding midfielder, because he just doesn’t have any game awareness, the ability to pass through lines, the ability to step back into the defence and bring the ball out, I could go on.
Flynn either needs to play a formation and style of football that suits Kinsella… or he needs to bin him and get a midfielder in that position (Comley is cack) that can orchestrate play (much like Ollie Banks as a L2 example, Jack Payne last year for Swindon, etc) we don’t have any in the squad capable of it - yet we persist in knocking it around the back, and there’s absolutely nothing. The defence don’t want to give it the midfield, the midfield is completely dysfunctional such that there’s no angles or rotation, the full backs are miles away, the gap between our midfield and forwards is also massive - so we end up channel hoofing.
So, yeah, there is no ‘hate’ for Kinsella - just realism and a difference of opinion. I will say what I said roughly 2 and a bit years ago - we will not get promoted out of this league with Kinsella playing as a holding midfielder - or in a midfield 2. It will not happen.
He played Maddox too deep today, another stifling move if you ask me.
He belongs further up. But I think he did this to try and address the issues you allude too.
Yeah, our transitioning from defence through midfield to the forwards is plodding and so unstructured. I can see the logic… but again, it’s someone who isn’t match fit, and probably still not gelled with the squad.
Two things that require decent positioning and reading of the game…
Honestly, tell me how you set up the midfield without Comely or Kinsella, with our current available players, and protect the back and link with the front.
Flynn said today, the issues are in either box.
They don’t have the confidence either, all in their shell. Understandable but someone’s gotta grow a pair or we are going to struggle for a long time.
That’s why the likes of Bennett look so good, they have the confidence to take players on. The guy gets out of a press with ease. Maybe it’s pure talent but he plays with confidence. Hammering the players in the press is only gonna end one way.
Can’t remember a single time that’s worked for a Walsall manager.
For winning the ball back - I’d argue he actually makes huge holes when he dives in and rushes people (particularly when he’s played in a 2, and why I think he shouldn’t ever play in a 2).
But how about positioning to receive the ball, transition play? That is the sort of game intelligence I refer to - he doesn’t have it.
Can you tell me once where Kinsella has controlled a game ? I can think of not a single occasion in his career. He just isn’t that sort of player.
Re: what to do. I think that’s a major concern - and poor recruitment for the style Flynn is trying to play (why I mentioned other players as an example of the sort of player we need in there) - and we may have to trudge through to January with this lot. I think Riley is a huge miss and big piece of the jigsaw missing - as is Gordon as the first choice left wing back. We recruited to play a 343/352 - yet through injuries (and managerial biases) we are hurting with the injuries.
My gut tells me that we should be playing (if all fit) a 343/352/3421 (which is what we recruited for) - with Earing Riley and Hutchinson. I think Flynn wanted Comley/Kinsella Riley and Earing/Hutchinson for those 3 roles, but I genuinely don’t think you need any real deep screens with 3 centre halves - you need players who are more fluid and can transition the ball quickly and contribute more going forward (as you are already lopsided defensively when you have 5 instead of 4 players when defending).
It’s basically all a bit of a mess - I’d argue down to recruitment and the spectre of injuries. I think the Riley and Gordon injuries have really muddled Flynn’s thinking.
Firstly, he doesn’t have to boss games, and this is the latest in a long line of added stipulations used to query his role in the team.
We’ve established he’s not the type of player to do that, and that he doesn’t need to. More importantly, who else in the team is Kins inclusion keeping from dominating play? Who is the lynch pin we’re not seeing?
Secondly, if you watch Kinsella and Earing today they are the players pushing the ball forward. Yes Kins makes his fair share of safe passes, but he made plenty of clean forward passes today. A note on the Tranmere no 8 too, who did literally nothing but screen and play sideways or backwards passes, presuming he’s non league too.
Re changes: As I said, available players. Awful lot of expectation being heaped on Riley to revolutionise everything despite the fact he’s a largely unknown entity and likely to be out for quite some time. I’d question your confidence in Hutchinson also.
Back to Olly Banks, should have signed him.
Kinsella has been poor this season you know whatever position he is on the pitch when he receives the ball it’s going to be slowed down and go backwards
He plays more forward passes than he’s given credit for, and I’d argue his overall form is skewed by the painful period he was played as a number eight. When he’s doing his job he does it well.
As I’ve said before, he’s not spectacular and in better times he might not be a guaranteed starter, but at this moment in time I’m not sure we have the players to do without him.
I think the larger point is…
Why do we persist in playing players like Kinsella and consider them ‘undroppable’ on the back of no wins in 12? Monthe was dropped today, why not Kinsella? Is he really that important to us? Is he really that special a player that he plays no matter what?
I think you know my answer to those questions
I am purely suggesting we try something different because it can’t really get any worse can it? What is the value of sticking with the same thing every game? And by same thing… I mean this negative dysfunctional style of football that is boring, and most importantly - not effective. It’s been the same way for 5 years now. I am sick to death of it.
I guess in sum…I don’t get the insistence that Kinsella must play. Why?
PS. I know you are talking about the realistic situation right now with regards team selection - whereas I am probably looking a bit more generally and toward more future aspirations.