Not according to the BBC website for Tuesday’s game.
Successive managers have consistently selected Liam in their teams. Since most managers have probably forgotten more about football than the average fan knows I think it’s fair to say he’s worth his place in the team, period. Of course that doesn’t stop any of us having an opinion, but does suggest to me that detractors are perhaps not right in their assessment.
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How have these managers got on here, and where have we finished in the table?
Just to complete your point.
I think you’d be saying “ what’s our right back doing that high up the pitch” 
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That is not as strong an argument as you think it is.
Even unsuccessful managers have to know a lot about the game after playing it at a professional level, becoming a coach and working with footballers for their whole working life. They have to be able to judge players and know the strengths and weaknesses of the players in their squads. They watch their players in training during the week and see every match and have the benefit of videos and analysis. They also have coaches to consult with about the quality and potential of each player.
Building a successful team requires unusual ability in a manager, most managers at this level end up getting sacked. You cannot really believe that because a manager is unsuccessful that means that he does not know enough about football in order to tell the difference between a good player and a poor player.
The suggestion that we have had six managers in a row: Whitney, Keates, Clarke, Dutton, Taylor and Flynn who have picked Kinsella as a first choice, offered him new contracts and retained him when they have cleared out the majority of the squads they inherited, without noticing all the faults that you claim are obvious, is not a tenable position.
I could just about accept that one manager could have a blind spot about a player and continue playing him and retaining him without him being effective in the side. The idea that six very different managers all have the same blind spot is just ridiculous.
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What a good post 
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With respect, that’s not entirely my point.
My point is that he had been continuously picked in sides that have failed.
You can’t make the one argument, without considering this.
I guess that’s the crux of my whole argument with Kinsella etc. He is a great servant to the club, great effort and motivation… but… I just don’t see a successful promotion winning side with him in it.
Of course, he’s not the sole reason we have had terrible seasons, and not the sole reason whilst we continue to stutter - I just don’t see how he plays in a successful promotion winning side, other than a squad player - or playing in specific situations.
Of course, I could be wrong, and it’s just an opinion. Do you think Liam Kinsella would be a star player in any of the top 3/7 sides? Or is he a top player in a massively underachieving side ? I think that is worth considering.
That said… his performance against Harrogate, was a lot like his performance against Hartlepool. If he performs like that and affects play against a side that isn’t absolutely terrible - then I will also hold my hands up and admit I got it wrong.
I just don’t think I am wrong - but if I wanted any player to prove me wrong on that - it would be Liam Kinsella.
I think Bernie has answered your first point. As to your second I’d say about where the club has deserved to be. As I said, it’s a matter of opinion. It’s also a squad game, so not one player who you seem to have a blind spot for to blame, but the whole kit and caboodle. We’ll agree to differ on Liam.
Hope my point above clarifies further 
You express your opinions clearly, I have no problem with that, I just don’t think you are correct. Every successful team needs a Kinsella like player to disrupt opponents and break up play. It’s really down to the others then to create/score etc. As I said, we agree to differ.
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Yep agree to disagree. I agree every side needs a holding player - I just think we need someone better if we are to be promoted.
Or… Kinsella adds more to his game and improves. Again, I am yet to see it against decent opposition.
Hope he proves me wrong 
I certainly believe he would be a good player in a top side in this division.
Why do I think that? He has frequently been the best player in poor Walsall teams over the past five years. That is not just in my opinion or in the opinion of successive managers, but he is often named as sponsor’s man of the match and has been voted as fans’ player of the season for the last two seasons. Frankly he has won those honours almost by default, since there were often very few players in the squad who are consistently playing well.
Would he also look a good player in a side that is playing well? I think so, after all he was the Walsall player picked out for comment by the Harrogate manager after an all-round good performance on Tuesday night. He plays best when there are good creative midfielders and effective wide players alongside him.
Actually, I think he would be first choice in every League 2 team, but “star player” implies creativity and that is not what he does, although, as we saw on Tuesday, his efforts can allow the more creative players to flourish. I just think you want him to be what he is not and he will always fail at that.
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I don’t disagree with most of that.
The only point I disagree with is that he would be a regular* in a top side. I just don’t think he would be. Why haven’t any sides in league one or chasing promotion in this league come in to sign him? Normally… any player with potential or ambition is not at Walsall for very long. Right?
You’ve sort of backed up my entire point in your post:
Exactly. He has stood out in very poor sides, because the bar is so low.
My point is that if that bar is risen to a promotion chasing side - I think he’s below that. I hope he proves me wrong on that opinion, and as I said above, I would love it if he did given how much heart and motivation he has for the club.
I don’t think it’s that controversial - just brutal honesty.
*changed from ‘star player’ given Laundryman’s point. I still feel same way.
On the other side of the coin, like @Bernie mentioned he has kept on continuously, by numerous managers. There have been times where he could have left on a free, but managers choose to offer him extensions.
One player doesn’t make a team, nor does on player spoil a team.
Above all I feel fans appreciate his loyalty, which in todays day and age is an extreme rarity.
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I think Kinsella would be a better player in a good team ( maybe championship) he would have less to do and more time to do it. He doesn’t get a minutes rest playing for us because we’re always giving the damn ball away.
Exactly this, he spends most his game clearing up other players errors.
Without him there’s a good chance we would have been relegated in one of the last 2 seasons.
He needs some respect on his name.
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Again…. No one disagrees with that.
For the 78th time… I am commenting on what we need to get promoted. Not to survive, or Bob along in mid table.
I don’t get why that is controversial. It’s what the data and evidence shows.
Not sure mate, you’ve been pretty shitty towards him on a number of threads.
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Oh come on.
Saying someone is a standard league two player (or angrily saying non league standard to wind up El N) isn’t exactly being shitty is it? No one is questioning his commitment or loyalty - no one has called him names, or made derogatory comments about him.
You can go to any post of mine over the last 2/3 years and you will see I always commend his work rate and motivation. No problem at all with that.
It’s not ‘being shitty’ to suggest a footballer is not a footballer who can consistently play well in a side challenging for promotion.